Strange name. Great software.
Thu, 22 Mar 2007
Minutes after they were announced on January 9th, we at Rogue Amoeba ordered two AppleTVs to test out. Just as we extended and improved the AirPort Express with Airfoil, we're evaluating what we can do for the AppleTV. Today our AppleTVs have finally arrived and I've been testing them out.
Surprise #1: The AppleTV doesn't ship with any connection cables
Printer manufacturers started shipping printers sans cables a few years back, and it was lame, but many of us have an excess of USB cables anyhow. However, I don't have any HDMI or component cables, let alone spares1. So when the AppleTV arrived, I had a very pretty, very expensive brick. I could power it on, but not much else. It's ultimately a small thing, but I expect better from Apple.
After a quick trip to Radio Shack, I hooked the AppleTV up to my TV.
Surprise #2: The AppleTV doesn't require a "Widescreen TV" or an HDTV
This is a pretty damned big deal, and I haven't seen it reported anywhere. The usually reliable David Pogue's review states:
"The heartbreaker for millions, however, is that Apple TV requires a widescreen TV - preferably an HDTV. It doesn't work with the squarish, traditional TVs that many people still have." See updates at the end of this article
I don't blame David for this. After all, it's what Apple's documentation and marketing talks about, using the phrases "Widescreen TV" and HDTV. The Connect page of the AppleTV web page says:
Apple TV works with widescreen, enhanced-definition or high-definition TVs capable of 1080i, 720p, 576p, or 480p resolutions, including popular models from these manufacturers.
And yet there I was, with a 480i (that's "standard definition", what non-HD TVs have) option right in the Apple TV settings. See for yourself:
(Click for a close-up)
That's a "squarish" CRT TV2, just like most people still have (specifically, it's a Magnovox 27" model #27MS4504R). I don't know what percentage of standard-def TVs have component inputs, but mine does and it's about 3 years old. So let's dispense with one myth right now - the AppleTV does not need a widescreen TV. AppleTV does have a 480i mode, which works with standard-def TVs.
My guess is that Apple would rather lose a few customers than confuse everyone. Only standard-def TVs made in the past few years will have component inputs, so most of the fifty years worth of standard-def TVs out there still won't work with the AppleTV. By referring to Widescreen TVs, they may prevent people with standard-def TVs from buying only to find out they need a new TV. But if you've purchased a new, non-HDTV in the past few years, the AppleTV may well work for you (provided you have component input jacks).
Once it was plugged in, setup was incredibly smooth. In the past I've tested several devices to get video from the computer to a TV, and this is by far the simplest. I selected my language, told it what network to join, entered my network password, and that was it. It took about 45 seconds, and there were no problems - I couldn't have asked for anything simpler there.
Once set, you then need to either associate it with a machine, or set it up for streaming from a machine. Either way, the AppleTV appears in your iTunes' Devices tab, just like an iPod. When you set it up for streaming, it appears, you click to set it up, and then it disappears, visible only in the Preferences. When you set it up to Sync, it looks exactly like an iPod.
The difference is that for some reason, the Apple TV only allows for Syncing. With an iPod you have the choice between syncing everything or manually managing. The AppleTV does not allow for manual management. This means it's not possible to drag and drop select songs to the AppleTV. I'd love to use syncing, but my music library alone is over 40 gigs, so that won't work3.
My first experimentation was using the device for audio playback. I don't watch much TV, but I listen to a lot of music, and I wanted to see how AppleTV fared here.
Surprise #3: The AppleTV works pretty well with your music library
The device is obviously built for TV, but it does a pretty good job with audio playback. Obviously it sounds great, and looks good, particularly if you have album art for your music. There are a few snags, however.
Navigating music can be a chore, particularly when you have a couple thousand different artists. The Apple Remote allows for just two operations in each direction. You can move by one by pressing the + or - keys, or you can scan quickly by holding down + or -. The longer you scan, the faster the scan goes, which is good. However, when you let go, the scan doesn't stop immediately. If you see what you're after, it's already too late. As well, the ends of the list don't bounce like the iPhone does. The stop is abrupt and jarring. Overall, the navigation is less than ideal. For video, you're likely to have much shorter lists, but I think this points to problems with the concept of a six-button remote.
As well, leaving a section (such as Music, Podcasts, or TV Shows) stops playback. For video, this makes sense, but it means you can't play audio and browse around. A minor issue, but when playing around I hit it often.
Oddly, there's no Party Shuffle, which seems like a natural fit for such a device. You can choose Shuffle Songs as in iTunes, but that doesn't show upcoming or recent songs, nor allow you to add songs to the list. Likewise, you can not create "On-The-Go playlists" as with an iPod, which seems even more obvious.
I tested out photos briefly, and slideshows look great on a big screen. Now there's finally a reason for all those megapixels. When selecting background music for your slideshows, I highly recommend The Band. One note, as far as I can see, it's not possible to stream photos from a remote machine - they must be synced locally to the AppleTV.
Surprise #4: If iTunes can play it, AppleTV might be able. Or maybe not.
The line I'd seen around the web was "If iTunes can play it, AppleTV can play it." This is not the case. Certainly, AppleTV can play any audio or video you purchase from the iTunes Store. However, iTunes can play other formats through the use of third-party QuickTime plugins, while AppleTV can not be extended in this manner.
If you try and sync unsupported video content from iTunes to AppleTV, the files won't sync over. You'll get an error, indicated by a tiny /!\ symbol next to the AppleTV in the Devices list.
If you instead try to stream from a remote computer, you'll see that the files simply aren't listed. They're in the iTunes Library on the remote machine, but they don't show up as options on the AppleTV. iTunes is simply transferring the file (if supported) over to AppleTV which then handles the actual video playback. This means that support for video formats needs to be on the AppleTV itself.
Surprise #5: Video playback, including streaming, works well
"Why wouldn't it work well?", you're saying to yourself. If you've never used a media center device before, this won't be a surprise. But if you've used other devices (most of which don't have hard drive), you know about the poor quality of streaming video. Skips and glitches were common, and seeking in a file was often not possible.
With the AppleTV and its 802.11n, however, this works great. As mentioned above, the file isn't really streaming from your machine, it's being copied over and then played back locally. This means it's possible to fast-forward and rewind through the file. This seeking isn't perfect as you need to hold the button down, and it's a bit tricky. It does work, however, unlike every other media device I've seen.
When playing video on a computer, I find I prefer to jump forward or back, instead of seeking. Clicking Forward or Back does indeed jump in the file. However, this jump amount is not consistent. In an 60 minute file, it jumps 3 minutes, while in a 2 and a half minute file, it jumps 30 seconds. I often find myself wanting to skip back or forward by ten seconds, but skipping an indeterminate amount of time is not particularly useful. See updates at the end of this article
These are minor things that will hopefully be corrected, but overall the video playback is quite good. 802.11n transfer speeds are very fast, and both local and streaming video play flawlessly.
Wishlist For The Future
1) A bigger hard drive or support for external HDs
As noted, my music library alone is over 40 gigs, and video is much larger. As such, I can't use the AppleTV in a fully automated Sync mode and still have access to all my content. A bigger hard drive would be nice, but why not just let me plug in a USB hard drive? Service reasons is a pretty crummy reason for such a thing. The guess around the RA offices is that it'll be used for an input device, for gaming.
2) Personal Video Recording (PVR) abilities
I have an EyeTV, and it's great. However, as it stands, I need to take my EyeTV content from my desktop and get it to my AppleTV to play it. From a technical standpoint, adding PVR capabilities to the AppleTV seems obvious. Of course, Apple doesn't want you to - they want you to buy those shows from them. Which brings me to number three on the wishlist.
3) Purchasing from the couch
Seeing the top iTunes TV Shows, Music, and so on is fine. Now why the heck can't I buy them from the AppleTV? A 30 second preview is exactly enough to convince me to buy. Once convinced, I've got to get off my duff and go to the computer to purchase and then sync the new content over? Since I first saw the device out at Macworld, this has seemed like a very rough edge.
4) Support for more video formats
The specs page for AppleTV shows the rather paltry support the device has for other video formats. Again, Apple wants you to buy video content from them, but plenty of people get content from other places. By now QuickTime Player can play much of it, and Apple recently added a "Movie to AppleTV" Export option to QuickTime, but it's slow as molasses. Right now, if you have an unsupported video file, it's a chore to get it playing on the AppleTV.
Quo Vadimus?
For those who aren't Latin scholars or Sports Night fans, that means "Where are we going?". As far as Rogue Amoeba is concerned, we're currently evaluating how we can enhance the AppleTV. Enabling it to play any audio makes sense, and we'll be looking at that, as well as video. Whether as an update to Airfoil or a new application, we hope to improve the AppleTV experience just as we did with the AirPort Express. Join our low-traffic announcement list and stay tuned!
Updates:
3/23/07 12:30 PM There's confusion about component vs. composite, and I don't blame anyone - the words are far too similar. So, how about pictures?
Component
That's component input. Video comes in on three cables (red, green, and blue), and audio (again) comes in on red and white cables. The AppleTV does have component output. This is the input you need on your TV.
Meanwhile, this is composite input:
Composite
Video comes in on one yellow cable (or over s-video), and audio comes in on red and white cables. The AppleTV does not have a composite output, and this input jack will not help you (at least not directly).
As well, some have asked about picture distortion. As I noted in the comments, I watched multiple video sources, including an episode of Andy Barker, PI and Luxo Jr. both from iTunes, a couple TV episodes from EyeTV that were converted by EyeTV, and a couple other music video files. These all looked fine to me, but your mileage may vary.
3/23/07 2:00 PM I emailed David Pogue about this yesterday, and he was kind enough to email me back. He says:
Hey Paul--Apple says that this setup would only work IF the standard-def screens have a "simulated widescreen" mode...
If that's the case, then my 3 year old TV (Magnavox 27" model #27MS4504R) has such a mode. I see no mention of it in the manual, but it may be automatic. I'd wager a good number of other TVs have such a mode do too.
The most basic thing here is that I was able to hook up the AppleTV to a standard tv and watch video, without obvious distortion or scrunching. Your experience may differ, so caveat emptor.
3/23/07 3:00 PM Sometimes, it helps to RTFM. When video is paused, pressing back or forward skips by, drumroll please, 10 seconds. Perfect. I still think a proportional skip is bizarre and wrong, but at least it's possible to do what I'm after.
3/24/07 11:00 AM Because my living room isn't famous enough, I snapped some pictures of this all in action, which you can see by clicking below.
iTunes-Purchased Andy Barker episode restarting
iTunes-Purchased Andy Barker episode playing
EyeTV (EyeTV 200) recorded and converted content
The Get Up Kids "Man Of Conviction" Video pulled from TGUK website
Photo slideshow MWSF 2006 image
Handbrake-ripped h.264 content Strongbad Email Disc 3 FBI warning
3/27/07 11:30 AM A list of TVs known to work properly with the AppleTV. Please leave more in the comments, and I'll update the list:
• Magnavox 27", model #27MS4504R
• Sony WEGA 32" model #KV-32FV15
• Sony WEGA 27" model #KV-27FS13 (requires manual switching to 16:9)
Link directly to this list: http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Article/appleTV-2007-03-22-21-30#up5-2007-03-22
Footnotes:
1. As you might expect, I do have plenty of RCA audio cables lying around.↩
2. And next to it is my Guitar Hero guitar, as mentioned in the interview I did with Ars.↩
3. My workaround is to do this in two steps. I created an AppleTV playlist and set the Apple TV to sync just that. Now, I drag my desired music there, then sync. It's clunky, but it allows me to get selected portions of my library over to the device.↩
Posted by Paul | Permalink
| View/Post Comments (110)
Comments
JH
Thu Mar 22 23:19:05 2007
I've got a pretty new TV, and it has component in. I'll definitely need to check out the AppleTV now!
Thu Mar 22 23:19:05 2007
I've got a pretty new TV, and it has component in. I'll definitely need to check out the AppleTV now!
Lou Flemal
Thu Mar 22 23:50:52 2007
More surprises:
1) The Apple TV has a 1080i output mode!
2) Movie trailers directly from the 'net! (Can direct purchase be far behind? - AND the trailers look very pretty - are they HD?)
3) Logitech's Harmony remotes aren't ready for Apple TV yet. (They can't ALL be good surprises...) You can't even easily fake it by learning the codes...
Thu Mar 22 23:50:52 2007
More surprises:
1) The Apple TV has a 1080i output mode!
2) Movie trailers directly from the 'net! (Can direct purchase be far behind? - AND the trailers look very pretty - are they HD?)
3) Logitech's Harmony remotes aren't ready for Apple TV yet. (They can't ALL be good surprises...) You can't even easily fake it by learning the codes...
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Fri Mar 23 00:59:51 2007
JH: glad to hear it. The device suddenly seems to have a much bigger potential market than before.
Lou:
1) I'm not sure why this is a surprise - this was known and has been listed on Apple's site. What people really want is 1080p - true 1080, non-interlaced.
2) If I recall, this was shown in the keynote. It's cool, but it's not much of a feature until you can buy from the couch, like I said.
3) Can the Harmonys learn? I have a simple universal remote that "learns" by simply pointing the original remote at it and pressing a specific button. I haven't tried with the Apple Remote, but it's all IR, no reason that shouldn't work.
Eric
Fri Mar 23 01:47:28 2007
I keep reading articles about AppleTV missing PVR functionality and while I agree I wish it had it, I can understand why Apple didn't include it. PVR's are great when provided by your cable or satellite tv company but if you supply your own equipment, that's when the trouble begins. Purchased PVR's can't decode satellite, digital cable or scrambled analog signals. This means you still need a cable or satellite box in front of the PVR. To change channels, you either have to manually switch them or use some kind of signal cable or IR transmitter. Apple is all about elegance and simplicity. Can you imagine asking customers to figure all that out? They want things to work out of the box. The other option is over the air broadcasts. The problem there is limited choices and the need for an antenna. Maybe if cablecards had taken off and it was as simple as putting one of those in your AppleTV, then I could see it but until we have IPTV where all you need is to connect the AppleTV to the internet to watch any programs, I can't see Apple adding PVR support.
Fri Mar 23 01:47:28 2007
I keep reading articles about AppleTV missing PVR functionality and while I agree I wish it had it, I can understand why Apple didn't include it. PVR's are great when provided by your cable or satellite tv company but if you supply your own equipment, that's when the trouble begins. Purchased PVR's can't decode satellite, digital cable or scrambled analog signals. This means you still need a cable or satellite box in front of the PVR. To change channels, you either have to manually switch them or use some kind of signal cable or IR transmitter. Apple is all about elegance and simplicity. Can you imagine asking customers to figure all that out? They want things to work out of the box. The other option is over the air broadcasts. The problem there is limited choices and the need for an antenna. Maybe if cablecards had taken off and it was as simple as putting one of those in your AppleTV, then I could see it but until we have IPTV where all you need is to connect the AppleTV to the internet to watch any programs, I can't see Apple adding PVR support.
Dan Cranston
Fri Mar 23 03:36:46 2007
You can use Harmony Remotes, just tell it it's a computer device and choose Mac Mini or Front Row. Works like a charm!
Fri Mar 23 03:36:46 2007
You can use Harmony Remotes, just tell it it's a computer device and choose Mac Mini or Front Row. Works like a charm!
Dylan
Fri Mar 23 03:52:22 2007
DVR/PVRs are really a pain when you think about it. You have to set schedules, and make sure there's no conflicts. Some people have dual tuner and triple tuner setups just to get around that. If there's a sports game prior to the show you want to record then you may well miss it. Lots of little things can screw up getting the shows you want. Don't get me wrong -- I love my own DVR, and ninety percent of the time things are fine, but I do miss things from time to time, and it's really a bit of a square peg fitting on the broadcast/cable/satellite round hole.
In contrast, the idea of selecting my shows in iTunes and having them download works much better. No conflicts, I get exactly what I want, and i don't even have to skip through commercials. The problems with iTunes are availability (it doesn't have all the shows I want, but I expect this to be solved in time) and price, because someone who watches a lot of television will still find cable/satellite and DVR fees cheaper than buying every single show on iTunes. That's harder to solve, but I'm hoping an eventual cheaper rental model may work well with video, especially with the more expensive movies.
Also iTunes obviously it isn't good for live stuff like sports, news, awards show type stuff but I get that sort of thing on the internet or don't care about it. Almosy everything I watch is pre-recorded.
Fri Mar 23 03:52:22 2007
DVR/PVRs are really a pain when you think about it. You have to set schedules, and make sure there's no conflicts. Some people have dual tuner and triple tuner setups just to get around that. If there's a sports game prior to the show you want to record then you may well miss it. Lots of little things can screw up getting the shows you want. Don't get me wrong -- I love my own DVR, and ninety percent of the time things are fine, but I do miss things from time to time, and it's really a bit of a square peg fitting on the broadcast/cable/satellite round hole.
In contrast, the idea of selecting my shows in iTunes and having them download works much better. No conflicts, I get exactly what I want, and i don't even have to skip through commercials. The problems with iTunes are availability (it doesn't have all the shows I want, but I expect this to be solved in time) and price, because someone who watches a lot of television will still find cable/satellite and DVR fees cheaper than buying every single show on iTunes. That's harder to solve, but I'm hoping an eventual cheaper rental model may work well with video, especially with the more expensive movies.
Also iTunes obviously it isn't good for live stuff like sports, news, awards show type stuff but I get that sort of thing on the internet or don't care about it. Almosy everything I watch is pre-recorded.
DBL
Fri Mar 23 04:01:30 2007
"Only standard-def TVs made in the past few years will have component inputs, so most of the fifty years worth of standard-def TVs out there still won't work with the AppleTV."
The great news is that this is no longer true, either. As long as the Apple TV can put out any sort of signal in 480i (and you've informed us that it can), then you can get an adaptor to hook it to any standard def TV you wish, even if it's decades old.
For example, while you were at Radio Shack, you could have sprung an extra $25 out of your pocket and picked up this:
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-rf-modulatorvideo-component-adapter--pi-2103095.html
Fri Mar 23 04:01:30 2007
"Only standard-def TVs made in the past few years will have component inputs, so most of the fifty years worth of standard-def TVs out there still won't work with the AppleTV."
The great news is that this is no longer true, either. As long as the Apple TV can put out any sort of signal in 480i (and you've informed us that it can), then you can get an adaptor to hook it to any standard def TV you wish, even if it's decades old.
For example, while you were at Radio Shack, you could have sprung an extra $25 out of your pocket and picked up this:
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-rf-modulatorvideo-component-adapter--pi-2103095.html
DBL
Fri Mar 23 04:27:23 2007
Okay, sorry -- scratch that link, it doesn't have true component video -- the description was confusing. However, this device should do the trick:
Unfortunately this one runs you $70, although it also has the ability to distribute the output from Apple TV to four different displays! (This should probably work with HD signal as well.)
If anyone discovers a cheaper simpler device that does only converts component video to any one of S-video, composite video, or RF, I'd love to see it posted because I intend to use Apple TV with my non-component standard TV...
Fri Mar 23 04:27:23 2007
Okay, sorry -- scratch that link, it doesn't have true component video -- the description was confusing. However, this device should do the trick:
Unfortunately this one runs you $70, although it also has the ability to distribute the output from Apple TV to four different displays! (This should probably work with HD signal as well.)
If anyone discovers a cheaper simpler device that does only converts component video to any one of S-video, composite video, or RF, I'd love to see it posted because I intend to use Apple TV with my non-component standard TV...
Bruce Garlock
Fri Mar 23 09:07:27 2007
Wow, being able to choose 480i is great! I thought Apple TV was a deal breaker for me, because I have an older 480i TV, with component inputs. Maybe Apple needs to update their Specs page?
I am now going to ask my wife if we can get one :-)
Fri Mar 23 09:07:27 2007
Wow, being able to choose 480i is great! I thought Apple TV was a deal breaker for me, because I have an older 480i TV, with component inputs. Maybe Apple needs to update their Specs page?
I am now going to ask my wife if we can get one :-)
drphred
Fri Mar 23 09:16:35 2007
To get your eyetv to work automatically with iTunes and your AppleTV, all you have to do is check the box "export to iPod" in your recording options in the eyetv software.
Fri Mar 23 09:16:35 2007
To get your eyetv to work automatically with iTunes and your AppleTV, all you have to do is check the box "export to iPod" in your recording options in the eyetv software.
Chris Merritt
Fri Mar 23 09:20:01 2007
I hooked up my tv to my standard def tv yesterday, and while it still technically "works" on the 480i setting, the widescreen picture tv puts out is stretched vertically to fit my screen. This may not bother some people, but the picture is distorted way beyond the acceptable point for me, so I'm going to be shopping for an HDTV anyways.
Fri Mar 23 09:20:01 2007
I hooked up my tv to my standard def tv yesterday, and while it still technically "works" on the 480i setting, the widescreen picture tv puts out is stretched vertically to fit my screen. This may not bother some people, but the picture is distorted way beyond the acceptable point for me, so I'm going to be shopping for an HDTV anyways.
Karl von L.
Fri Mar 23 09:34:55 2007
"Only standard-def TVs made in the past few years will have component inputs,"
Huh? I bought a little 13" TV for my bedroom way back in 1993 that had component inputs. I don't think I've seen many TVs in stores since then that lacked component inputs. 14 years is more than a "few", IMHO.
Fri Mar 23 09:34:55 2007
"Only standard-def TVs made in the past few years will have component inputs,"
Huh? I bought a little 13" TV for my bedroom way back in 1993 that had component inputs. I don't think I've seen many TVs in stores since then that lacked component inputs. 14 years is more than a "few", IMHO.
Morgan Aldridge
Fri Mar 23 10:12:47 2007
"Surprise #1: The AppleTV doesn't ship with any connection cables"
Umm, Apple has always listed "HDMI cable -or- component video cables and analog audio cables or optical audio cable" under the "what you need" heading on the "Connect Your TV" page (http://www.apple.com/appletv/connect.html). They also never listed any cables (other than power) under the "in the box" heading on the "Tech Specs" page (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html).
"Surprise #2: The AppleTV doesn't require a "Widescreen TV" or an HDTV"
Wouldn't any non-HDTV CRT or LCD TV that actually has component (i.e. YPbPr component, not RCA composite, for those that are -- understandably -- confusing the terms) be an EDTV? You can probably dig through your manuals or the specs on the manufacturer's web site to find out for sure if yours is one. If so, then Apple has already stated it'd work: "Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz" (from the "TV Compatibility" listing on the Tech Specs page).
Are you getting stretch/squish distortion at all? I get horrendous distortion when playing DVDs on my Xbox 360 to a 1080p HDTV, but my PowerMac plays them perfectly.
Otherwise a great first-impression review.
Fri Mar 23 10:12:47 2007
"Surprise #1: The AppleTV doesn't ship with any connection cables"
Umm, Apple has always listed "HDMI cable -or- component video cables and analog audio cables or optical audio cable" under the "what you need" heading on the "Connect Your TV" page (http://www.apple.com/appletv/connect.html). They also never listed any cables (other than power) under the "in the box" heading on the "Tech Specs" page (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html).
"Surprise #2: The AppleTV doesn't require a "Widescreen TV" or an HDTV"
Wouldn't any non-HDTV CRT or LCD TV that actually has component (i.e. YPbPr component, not RCA composite, for those that are -- understandably -- confusing the terms) be an EDTV? You can probably dig through your manuals or the specs on the manufacturer's web site to find out for sure if yours is one. If so, then Apple has already stated it'd work: "Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz" (from the "TV Compatibility" listing on the Tech Specs page).
Are you getting stretch/squish distortion at all? I get horrendous distortion when playing DVDs on my Xbox 360 to a 1080p HDTV, but my PowerMac plays them perfectly.
Otherwise a great first-impression review.
mikey
Fri Mar 23 10:21:12 2007
i'm really curious to see how the apple tv deals w/ multiple
itunes user accounts on the same computer.
(my SO and i have very different itunes content associated w/ our
user accounts on the same mac)
Fri Mar 23 10:21:12 2007
i'm really curious to see how the apple tv deals w/ multiple
itunes user accounts on the same computer.
(my SO and i have very different itunes content associated w/ our
user accounts on the same mac)
Sabon
Fri Mar 23 10:22:09 2007
"DVR/PVRs are really a pain when you think about it. You have to set schedules, and make sure there's no conflicts. Some people have dual tuner and triple tuner setups just to get around that. If there's a sports game prior to the show you want to record then you may well miss it. Lots of little things can screw up getting the shows you want. Don't get me wrong -- I love my own DVR, and ninety percent of the time things are fine, but I do miss things from time to time, and it's really a bit of a square peg fitting on the broadcast/cable/satellite round hole."
The problem isn't DVRs. The problem is WHICH DVR you have. If you have TiVo (the only good one right now) you don't have to worry about schedules and so forth. TiVo does that for you.
Fri Mar 23 10:22:09 2007
"DVR/PVRs are really a pain when you think about it. You have to set schedules, and make sure there's no conflicts. Some people have dual tuner and triple tuner setups just to get around that. If there's a sports game prior to the show you want to record then you may well miss it. Lots of little things can screw up getting the shows you want. Don't get me wrong -- I love my own DVR, and ninety percent of the time things are fine, but I do miss things from time to time, and it's really a bit of a square peg fitting on the broadcast/cable/satellite round hole."
The problem isn't DVRs. The problem is WHICH DVR you have. If you have TiVo (the only good one right now) you don't have to worry about schedules and so forth. TiVo does that for you.
Joo
Fri Mar 23 10:39:38 2007
How about a Click Wheel Remote (ala iPod) ?
I'd like to see that for the Apple TV
Fri Mar 23 10:39:38 2007
How about a Click Wheel Remote (ala iPod) ?
I'd like to see that for the Apple TV
Rich
Fri Mar 23 10:42:39 2007
A couple of blindingly obvious omissions that nobody seems to have noticed with the Apple TV box are...
1/ It doesn't have a tuner in it so you can only watch stuff that's available from the web... which generally reduces what is available and costs money (whereas a tuner would open up viewing of a whole lot more and let you get watch TV for free).
2/ There seems to be no way of feeding the TV picture back into your shiny widescreen Mac that you have hooked up to it. ie - you MUST use a TV to display anything.
Fri Mar 23 10:42:39 2007
A couple of blindingly obvious omissions that nobody seems to have noticed with the Apple TV box are...
1/ It doesn't have a tuner in it so you can only watch stuff that's available from the web... which generally reduces what is available and costs money (whereas a tuner would open up viewing of a whole lot more and let you get watch TV for free).
2/ There seems to be no way of feeding the TV picture back into your shiny widescreen Mac that you have hooked up to it. ie - you MUST use a TV to display anything.
saji
Fri Mar 23 10:43:09 2007
Paul - awesome rundown, gives me a better idea of how they probably implemented the software for this bad boy.
I think purchasing from the couch is a great application from the user experience point of view, but because of how the iTS handles DRM, this is rather more complex than viewing free trailers. The iTS only lets iTunes download protected media, because it's actually iTunes that adds the DRM to the media. In order to enable purchasing from the couch, the tv must remotely control your copy of iTunes to purchase the media, then sync it.
So it sounds like they'd have to enable iTunes command-and-control, which is not supported by the current iTunes DAAP protocol. Maybe require Remote Apple Events to be turned on?
BTW this is all wild guesses. :)
M
Fri Mar 23 10:43:09 2007
Paul - awesome rundown, gives me a better idea of how they probably implemented the software for this bad boy.
I think purchasing from the couch is a great application from the user experience point of view, but because of how the iTS handles DRM, this is rather more complex than viewing free trailers. The iTS only lets iTunes download protected media, because it's actually iTunes that adds the DRM to the media. In order to enable purchasing from the couch, the tv must remotely control your copy of iTunes to purchase the media, then sync it.
So it sounds like they'd have to enable iTunes command-and-control, which is not supported by the current iTunes DAAP protocol. Maybe require Remote Apple Events to be turned on?
BTW this is all wild guesses. :)
M
Karl von L.
Fri Mar 23 11:04:05 2007
"Karl.. You're thinking Composite, Not Component."
Oops, yes, you're right. Sorry about that.
Fri Mar 23 11:04:05 2007
"Karl.. You're thinking Composite, Not Component."
Oops, yes, you're right. Sorry about that.
Greg
Fri Mar 23 11:04:27 2007
There's a reason everyone is confused about Apple TV's ability to work with standard def TVs - I was at Macworld and asked multiple Apple reps at the Apple TV booths about this and they very directly stated that it would be HD only, even when they played the "To Be Determined" card on various other features. I drilled down into the settings menu while I was there and they only had about half of the resolutions that are now offered on launch.
Fri Mar 23 11:04:27 2007
There's a reason everyone is confused about Apple TV's ability to work with standard def TVs - I was at Macworld and asked multiple Apple reps at the Apple TV booths about this and they very directly stated that it would be HD only, even when they played the "To Be Determined" card on various other features. I drilled down into the settings menu while I was there and they only had about half of the resolutions that are now offered on launch.
Cormac
Fri Mar 23 11:23:18 2007
Hi all. I think that "component" is being confused with "composite".
Google for "composite to scart" or "composite to RF".
Prices vary from $4.95 to $55.00
(Component video is actually the opposite of composite i.e. the RGB and sync signal are separated. Usually this is only found on high-end lab equipment or professional video stuff.)
Fri Mar 23 11:23:18 2007
Hi all. I think that "component" is being confused with "composite".
Google for "composite to scart" or "composite to RF".
Prices vary from $4.95 to $55.00
(Component video is actually the opposite of composite i.e. the RGB and sync signal are separated. Usually this is only found on high-end lab equipment or professional video stuff.)
Steve Roberts
Fri Mar 23 11:26:19 2007
Just to backup what Chris Merritt has said... I think your article is unintentionally misleading.
480i or indeed 576i does not automatically imply that the output will be suitable for an old 4:3 standard definition set. Both 4:3 and 16:9 standard definition video signals are carried in 480i/576i, but the pixel aspect ratio is different. So a 480i/576i anamorphic widescreen picture will appear tall and thin on a 4:3 set. If the Apple box only supports widescreen pictures, then this is what viewers with 4:3 sets will have to put up with. It's possible that the Apple box includes a 4:3 centre cut-out or a letterbox mode, but this hasn't been mentioned. I suspect it is designed only to work with widescreen TVs.
Fri Mar 23 11:26:19 2007
Just to backup what Chris Merritt has said... I think your article is unintentionally misleading.
480i or indeed 576i does not automatically imply that the output will be suitable for an old 4:3 standard definition set. Both 4:3 and 16:9 standard definition video signals are carried in 480i/576i, but the pixel aspect ratio is different. So a 480i/576i anamorphic widescreen picture will appear tall and thin on a 4:3 set. If the Apple box only supports widescreen pictures, then this is what viewers with 4:3 sets will have to put up with. It's possible that the Apple box includes a 4:3 centre cut-out or a letterbox mode, but this hasn't been mentioned. I suspect it is designed only to work with widescreen TVs.
Jasper
Fri Mar 23 11:33:01 2007
Rich,
I can't see a point to having an Apple TV in your setup - you just play the media directly on your Mac. The Apple TV is for people to remote their media away from their computer - it serves no purpose otherwise.
Fri Mar 23 11:33:01 2007
Rich,
I can't see a point to having an Apple TV in your setup - you just play the media directly on your Mac. The Apple TV is for people to remote their media away from their computer - it serves no purpose otherwise.
Cormac
Fri Mar 23 11:40:46 2007
Uuuh, scratch my previous comment about component/composite video. Just went to the Apple site and did a RTFM, as well as being corrected by the enlightened Mr.Tony Smith over at El Reg
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/23/apple_tv_and_sd_tvs/
Fri Mar 23 11:40:46 2007
Uuuh, scratch my previous comment about component/composite video. Just went to the Apple site and did a RTFM, as well as being corrected by the enlightened Mr.Tony Smith over at El Reg
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/23/apple_tv_and_sd_tvs/
DBL
Fri Mar 23 12:02:40 2007
"Just to backup what Chris Merritt has said... I think your article is unintentionally misleading.
480i or indeed 576i does not automatically imply that the output will be suitable for an old 4:3 standard definition set. Both 4:3 and 16:9 standard definition video signals are carried in 480i/576i, but the pixel aspect ratio is different"
Yeah, but this can easily be corrected by running the signal through any device that is 16:9 aware -- for example, many DVRs have component inputs and are capable of reshaping the pixel aspect ratio by just flipping the setting to widescreen or 16:9. There are plenty of devices that can do this to a standard TV signal on its way to TV ... and some modern standard def TVs (the ones with component video are likely to be among them) have a 16:9 setting in their own menus that will introduce letterboxes and solve this problem.
Wrong aspect ratio in a video signal is a pretty trivial problem that may even be solvable by the devices you already have.
Fri Mar 23 12:02:40 2007
"Just to backup what Chris Merritt has said... I think your article is unintentionally misleading.
480i or indeed 576i does not automatically imply that the output will be suitable for an old 4:3 standard definition set. Both 4:3 and 16:9 standard definition video signals are carried in 480i/576i, but the pixel aspect ratio is different"
Yeah, but this can easily be corrected by running the signal through any device that is 16:9 aware -- for example, many DVRs have component inputs and are capable of reshaping the pixel aspect ratio by just flipping the setting to widescreen or 16:9. There are plenty of devices that can do this to a standard TV signal on its way to TV ... and some modern standard def TVs (the ones with component video are likely to be among them) have a 16:9 setting in their own menus that will introduce letterboxes and solve this problem.
Wrong aspect ratio in a video signal is a pretty trivial problem that may even be solvable by the devices you already have.
Steve Roberts
Fri Mar 23 12:21:27 2007
Agreed, DBL. But that isn't the implication in this article - in which the author is basically saying "you can plug it straight into a 4:3 TV and it will work fine". Which isn't true (at least on the basis of the evidence presented).
If he had said "you can plug it into a 4:3 TV as long as it has a 16:9 squashed-scans mode or you are prepared to post-process the video through a separate device that you may or may not already own, and it will work fine" then fair enough. But he didn't.
For my money, David Pogue's statement that "Apple TV requires a widescreen TV" appears to be entirely correct...
Fri Mar 23 12:21:27 2007
Agreed, DBL. But that isn't the implication in this article - in which the author is basically saying "you can plug it straight into a 4:3 TV and it will work fine". Which isn't true (at least on the basis of the evidence presented).
If he had said "you can plug it into a 4:3 TV as long as it has a 16:9 squashed-scans mode or you are prepared to post-process the video through a separate device that you may or may not already own, and it will work fine" then fair enough. But he didn't.
For my money, David Pogue's statement that "Apple TV requires a widescreen TV" appears to be entirely correct...
Dylan
Fri Mar 23 12:40:59 2007
Sabon,
So TiVo can record Ugly Betty and The Office at the same time, when I only have one feed going to the box? I don't think so.
And let's say a show gets interrupted for "breaking news" and then after ten mintues "We return to your program now" will TiVo, having little to no notice in guide data, magically be able to compensate and add time.
What is a show goes from 8:00 to 9:02 and I have a show I want to record at 9:00? Does TiVo (a) record the first show in full and I miss two minutes of the second show; (b) start the second show and I miss two minutes the other way; (c) magically time travel and gets both shows?
I know what Saban means -- if a network decides to change a program from Tuesdays at 8:00 to Thursday at 9:00, it will adjust the schedule -- although the move may cause a conflict with another timer and you have to make sure the conflict resolution works the way you want -- but even that ability, as nice as it is, isn't a panacea.
But don't take it from me -- check out the TiVocommunity forum: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/
Notice they have an entire board "Season Pass Alerts" where members inform each other on schedule changes, some of which their TiVos will resolve, others which will require human adjustment.
Fri Mar 23 12:40:59 2007
Sabon,
So TiVo can record Ugly Betty and The Office at the same time, when I only have one feed going to the box? I don't think so.
And let's say a show gets interrupted for "breaking news" and then after ten mintues "We return to your program now" will TiVo, having little to no notice in guide data, magically be able to compensate and add time.
What is a show goes from 8:00 to 9:02 and I have a show I want to record at 9:00? Does TiVo (a) record the first show in full and I miss two minutes of the second show; (b) start the second show and I miss two minutes the other way; (c) magically time travel and gets both shows?
I know what Saban means -- if a network decides to change a program from Tuesdays at 8:00 to Thursday at 9:00, it will adjust the schedule -- although the move may cause a conflict with another timer and you have to make sure the conflict resolution works the way you want -- but even that ability, as nice as it is, isn't a panacea.
But don't take it from me -- check out the TiVocommunity forum: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/
Notice they have an entire board "Season Pass Alerts" where members inform each other on schedule changes, some of which their TiVos will resolve, others which will require human adjustment.
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Fri Mar 23 12:49:26 2007
Eric: I think that's the point - Apple adding PVR capabilities would simplify things. Look at other things - routers, phones, and more. Those are complicated - until Apple comes along.
That said, I don't really see a need for PVR functionality there, but it sure would be nice. I've got a hard drive attached to my TV now, so I'm a lot closer to buffered playback and recording than I was before.
Dan: Interesting. I'm still hoping for a Harmony that does Rf, to replace my x10 universal remote. I doubt it'll happen, but a man can dream.
Dylan: Sure, on-demand is superior, no question there. But you pay for that, as $2 a show adds up. Even TiVo with its monthly fee is likely a lot cheaper than $2 a show. When on-demand has higher selection and is cheaper, it might give PVRs a run for their money, but for now, it seems like something of a pricey alternative.
DBL: I cleaned up your post a bit to better handle the links (we need to fix links on our end). That's an interesting link - I was looking for such a converter when the device was first announced, as I have a second tv that has just composite input. I'd be interested to see a cheaper converter, but I've yet to find one - this is the first I've seen.
Luca: I believe you can find links to people who've cracked it open now. I considered that, but I'd prefer to not break the device just yet.
Bruce: Exactly, and there are a lot of people like us, with older TVs that are still pretty new.
drphred: Sure, but have you done this? It's far from ideal. On my dual 2 GHz G5, it encodes an hour show in about 5 hours and that's not really going to cut it. Direct support for more video formats is the right answer, not a slow re-encode.
Chris: What was your source video? I didn't see any distortion with any of my video.
Obviously shopping for a new TV is a fine answer, but putting out 480i is a pretty big deal, since Apple mentions this nowhere that I can find.
Morgan: You're right that Apple lists that, but I didn't read that page before purchase, and I'd bet plenty of others didn't either. And it's not so much "Hey, they never told us this!" and "Hey, Apple's better than that".
As for #2, it's simply that the AppleTV does 480i, and Apple doesn't list this anywhere that I can find.
I'm not seeing any distortion with my videos, but those haven't been widescreen thus far so your mileage may vary. I just nabbed a widescreen video from iTMS and tested, it looks correct compared to local playback.
Mikey: I couldn't say on that, as I have just one account that I rarely use. I'm betting it will work fine, but I dunno.
Joo: More input device, perhaps third party, would be interesting. If the AppleTV can accept text input say (to jump from the top of a list to R, for instance), a third party remote could be useful. But adding slightly smoother scanning with a wheel, I wouldn't be terribly impressed.
Rich: 1) Sure, no tuner, but I don't think anyone ever expected that. You're hooking it up to a TV, which has a tuner, or a cable box which has a tuner. Why add another tuner, just to watch local tv/cable?
As for #2, that's certainly true, but AppleTV gets all its content from that Mac. So, that content is on the Mac, and then on the AppleTV. Currently, AppleTV gets no content on its own.
saji: Thanks 8). You're certainly correct about purchasing from the couch. The thing is, who cares? A few people at Apple, and tech-geeks, sure. But the average user will see this and say "Great, I just watched a preview of Cars, how do I buy it?". Having AppleTV handle this wouldn't be terribly difficult, just more work than it's doing now.
DAAP actually does have hooks for remote control - see the AirPort Express remote from Keyspan. But you're looking at this wrong, I think. AppleTV doesn't need to "control iTunes", it just needs to be able to say "buy this". Apple controls both ends here, that's not hard.
Greg: I'm not sure what you mean here. Apple has always said "HDTV" or "Widescreen" and never said 480i. Yet there 480i is, right in the settings.
patoban: Nope, the AppleTV has very little interactivity, and nothing goes from AppleTV back to your main machine.
Steve: Well, the big deal for me is "Hey, I can hook this up to my 3 year old SD tv and it works". The point was, the 480i setting was surprising to me, since Apple never mentioned it.
I've played multiple videos on it that all looked fine. So, I plugged it straight into a 4:3 TV, and played content with no problem, no squishing. This is content from iTunes store (an episode of Any Barker, PI and Luxo Jr., Pixar's first short), as well as a couple episodes captured with my EyeTV 200 that were converted, and finally a couple (non-iTunes) music videos.
At no point did I see squishing or letterboxing, and thus, no reason I felt I needed a widescreen TV. All my content looked great, no widescreen needed.
I'm not as well versed in TV as I am in computers, but I'm happy to test various video types to see just what is occurring.
Clay Garland
Fri Mar 23 12:58:32 2007
You've got the same philips TV that my Girlfriend has. Is that a 27 inch? It works on the Smallish TV, but on the plasma it looks positively astounding.
Fri Mar 23 12:58:32 2007
You've got the same philips TV that my Girlfriend has. Is that a 27 inch? It works on the Smallish TV, but on the plasma it looks positively astounding.
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Fri Mar 23 13:04:11 2007
Clay: It's a Magnavox 27ms4504r, 27 inch indeed 8)
WBM
Fri Mar 23 13:27:37 2007
DBL - The second Radio Shack device you linked to in your post...
"Okay, sorry -- scratch that link, it doesn't have true component video -- the description was confusing. However, this device should do the trick:"
...will not do the trick. It is only a "distribution amplifier", not a converter that will change component to composite video. Its name is the first clue: "4-Way A/V Component Video Distribution Amplifier". Sorry to rain on the parade.
WBM.
Fri Mar 23 13:27:37 2007
DBL - The second Radio Shack device you linked to in your post...
"Okay, sorry -- scratch that link, it doesn't have true component video -- the description was confusing. However, this device should do the trick:"
...will not do the trick. It is only a "distribution amplifier", not a converter that will change component to composite video. Its name is the first clue: "4-Way A/V Component Video Distribution Amplifier". Sorry to rain on the parade.
WBM.
DemSign
Fri Mar 23 13:57:46 2007
Of greater interest is: Let's say I swap out the HD in my Apple TV with one that has a full-blown OS X load on it and I plug a keyboard and mouse into that USB port. Do I then have a Mac Mini Mini?
Fri Mar 23 13:57:46 2007
Of greater interest is: Let's say I swap out the HD in my Apple TV with one that has a full-blown OS X load on it and I plug a keyboard and mouse into that USB port. Do I then have a Mac Mini Mini?
Jay
Fri Mar 23 14:58:46 2007
"2/ There seems to be no way of feeding the TV picture back into your shiny widescreen Mac that you have hooked up to it. ie - you MUST use a TV to display anything."
Widescreen Mac, or widescreen display?
Apple widescreen displays have DVI input, and you can get a HDMI-to-DVI converter. So that should work, right?
Why would you want to view programs from the AppleTV on your widescreen Mac? Isn't that like plugging your portable radio into your high-end stereo system?
Fri Mar 23 14:58:46 2007
"2/ There seems to be no way of feeding the TV picture back into your shiny widescreen Mac that you have hooked up to it. ie - you MUST use a TV to display anything."
Widescreen Mac, or widescreen display?
Apple widescreen displays have DVI input, and you can get a HDMI-to-DVI converter. So that should work, right?
Why would you want to view programs from the AppleTV on your widescreen Mac? Isn't that like plugging your portable radio into your high-end stereo system?
Ishmael
Fri Mar 23 15:49:44 2007
I want an AppleTV WITH a tuner & PVR capability, or I don't want one at all.
Fri Mar 23 15:49:44 2007
I want an AppleTV WITH a tuner & PVR capability, or I don't want one at all.
Thomas Schrader
Fri Mar 23 16:11:18 2007
I assume the converter everybody needs to convert component to scart incl. a kind of video conversion will be this hama video converter.
I'm curious if it would be the final solution for all the old TVs.
Fri Mar 23 16:11:18 2007
I assume the converter everybody needs to convert component to scart incl. a kind of video conversion will be this hama video converter.
I'm curious if it would be the final solution for all the old TVs.
Jim Hillhouse
Fri Mar 23 16:11:33 2007
So, there are those of us who are cheap in illogical ways, who do not hold back on making sure that they have a Wii or an AppleTV, but who still have a 2001 Sony 27" Trinitron.
And, if using 480i, my TV works fine...but with one hitch.
And this might matter to those of you who also have older TV's.
Each time I want to play a Movie or TV Show on my TV from my AppleTV, I have to go into the Settings and change the aspect ratio to 16:9. And if I change from one video to another, I have to go back in and do that all over again. Sucks but works.
At least until I finally break down and go buy an HDTV.
Fri Mar 23 16:11:33 2007
So, there are those of us who are cheap in illogical ways, who do not hold back on making sure that they have a Wii or an AppleTV, but who still have a 2001 Sony 27" Trinitron.
And, if using 480i, my TV works fine...but with one hitch.
And this might matter to those of you who also have older TV's.
Each time I want to play a Movie or TV Show on my TV from my AppleTV, I have to go into the Settings and change the aspect ratio to 16:9. And if I change from one video to another, I have to go back in and do that all over again. Sucks but works.
At least until I finally break down and go buy an HDTV.
Thomas Schrader
Fri Mar 23 16:12:14 2007
Sorry I missed to includ the link:
http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId113956/action2563
Fri Mar 23 16:12:14 2007
Sorry I missed to includ the link:
http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId113956/action2563
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Fri Mar 23 16:14:56 2007
Thomas: Not sure if you had a link, but it didn't survive the posting. Regardless, SCART isn't used in the US at all, so it won't help "all the old TVs". Maybe those in Europe?
Jim: Interesting - it seems like mine is doing this automatically. Post your model number if you know it, for reference for others.
Thomas Schrader
Fri Mar 23 16:24:41 2007
Sorry I missed to includ the link:
http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId113956/action2563
Fri Mar 23 16:24:41 2007
Sorry I missed to includ the link:
http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId113956/action2563
meep
Fri Mar 23 16:29:18 2007
Maybe somebody can put together a bunch of scripts or write some software like MCEbrowser (http://www.anpark.com/Software.aspx) to fake web surfing or to monitor e-mail or iChat.
Widgets would be a better option though. Even the iPhone will have some ... and AppleTV is an internet device after all ...
Fri Mar 23 16:29:18 2007
Maybe somebody can put together a bunch of scripts or write some software like MCEbrowser (http://www.anpark.com/Software.aspx) to fake web surfing or to monitor e-mail or iChat.
Widgets would be a better option though. Even the iPhone will have some ... and AppleTV is an internet device after all ...
Predrag
Fri Mar 23 16:30:53 2007
The rest of us have absolutely no use for (yet) another TV tuner. My VCR has it; my TV has it; my cable box has it. The only one that can actually be used is the cable box. The others show only a few network channels, and even they are in somewhat poor quality. The analog signals on the digital cable networks are a joke. TV tuners in today's devices have no purpose whatsoever.
As for DVR/PVR, they may possibly be some market for them, but the challenge is again the same - how to integrate them with the cable boxes.
Cable industry has monopolised this corner and they are killing innovation by players such as Apple. If Cable Card were the norm, AppleTV would have had PVR. This way, we're stuck with cable companies' proprietary (and quite crappy) PVR boxes.
Fri Mar 23 16:30:53 2007
The rest of us have absolutely no use for (yet) another TV tuner. My VCR has it; my TV has it; my cable box has it. The only one that can actually be used is the cable box. The others show only a few network channels, and even they are in somewhat poor quality. The analog signals on the digital cable networks are a joke. TV tuners in today's devices have no purpose whatsoever.
As for DVR/PVR, they may possibly be some market for them, but the challenge is again the same - how to integrate them with the cable boxes.
Cable industry has monopolised this corner and they are killing innovation by players such as Apple. If Cable Card were the norm, AppleTV would have had PVR. This way, we're stuck with cable companies' proprietary (and quite crappy) PVR boxes.
Simon
Fri Mar 23 18:21:02 2007
I just dug up my manual and checked the specs for our 24" Toshiba 24AF44 with Component (Y Pr Pb) connections. There is a troubleshooting section that mentions "no picture" and "poor picture". The solution for both of those state that:
is it possible that it's not the TV supporting 480i output, but rather your TV supporting 480p input? I'm jonesing for an TV but am loathe to spend the money on a new TV,
Fri Mar 23 18:21:02 2007
I just dug up my manual and checked the specs for our 24" Toshiba 24AF44 with Component (Y Pr Pb) connections. There is a troubleshooting section that mentions "no picture" and "poor picture". The solution for both of those state that:
"This TV will not accept or display 480p or 720p signals or 1080i interlaced high-definition signals through its ColorStream inputs. Switch the other device's output to 480i interlaced mode first"
is it possible that it's not the TV supporting 480i output, but rather your TV supporting 480p input? I'm jonesing for an TV but am loathe to spend the money on a new TV,
BitBoy
Fri Mar 23 18:54:50 2007
Can you control the music being played thru the Apple TV using iTunes from the Mac (a'la Airport Express)? It seems silly to have both an airport express and an ATV hooked to the A/V system, but navigating exclusively using the ATV remote and TV menu seems way too cumbersome for large music libraries.
Fri Mar 23 18:54:50 2007
Can you control the music being played thru the Apple TV using iTunes from the Mac (a'la Airport Express)? It seems silly to have both an airport express and an ATV hooked to the A/V system, but navigating exclusively using the ATV remote and TV menu seems way too cumbersome for large music libraries.
rY.
Fri Mar 23 19:16:42 2007
It seems the "armchair jury" is still out as to whether the 480i mode is anamorphic (16:9) or flat (4:3), but it's exciting that it works! Would love to see some digital photos of a "circle test" ;)
One big question about 480i (or 480p for that matter) -- is the picture OVERSCANNED or is there a black border around the screen? (I can't tell from the picture you posted, since the background of the TV is black!)
Thanks for the detailed review!
Fri Mar 23 19:16:42 2007
It seems the "armchair jury" is still out as to whether the 480i mode is anamorphic (16:9) or flat (4:3), but it's exciting that it works! Would love to see some digital photos of a "circle test" ;)
One big question about 480i (or 480p for that matter) -- is the picture OVERSCANNED or is there a black border around the screen? (I can't tell from the picture you posted, since the background of the TV is black!)
Thanks for the detailed review!
Y-Not
Fri Mar 23 19:27:32 2007
Does anyone know if H.264 files generated from DVDs using Handbrake will work with Apple TV? Seems like the specs say it will, but personal experience is better.
Fri Mar 23 19:27:32 2007
Does anyone know if H.264 files generated from DVDs using Handbrake will work with Apple TV? Seems like the specs say it will, but personal experience is better.
Nick S
Fri Mar 23 19:27:56 2007
Has anyone tested feeding the component output of the AppleTV into a standard AV receiver, then using a S-Video or even a composite output from there to the TV?
Fri Mar 23 19:27:56 2007
Has anyone tested feeding the component output of the AppleTV into a standard AV receiver, then using a S-Video or even a composite output from there to the TV?
Y-Not
Fri Mar 23 19:48:51 2007
Does anyone know if H.264 files generated from DVDs using Handbrake will work with Apple TV? Seems like the specs say it will, but personal experience is better.
Fri Mar 23 19:48:51 2007
Does anyone know if H.264 files generated from DVDs using Handbrake will work with Apple TV? Seems like the specs say it will, but personal experience is better.
Jr0m
Fri Mar 23 20:07:27 2007
Harddrive expansion works.
DropBear SSH works
Perian works.
Check out this thread
<a href="http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956">http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956</a>
Fri Mar 23 20:07:27 2007
Harddrive expansion works.
DropBear SSH works
Perian works.
Check out this thread
<a href="http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956">http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956</a>
Y-Not
Fri Mar 23 20:14:50 2007
Does anyone know if H.264 files generated from DVDs using Handbrake will work with Apple TV? Seems like the specs say it will, but personal experience is better.
Fri Mar 23 20:14:50 2007
Does anyone know if H.264 files generated from DVDs using Handbrake will work with Apple TV? Seems like the specs say it will, but personal experience is better.
MooCow
Fri Mar 23 20:50:50 2007
No problems with my MPEG-4/AAC and H.264/AAC handbrake rips (.mp4, not .avi)
Fri Mar 23 20:50:50 2007
No problems with my MPEG-4/AAC and H.264/AAC handbrake rips (.mp4, not .avi)
DBL
Fri Mar 23 21:36:32 2007
"For my money, David Pogue's statement that "Apple TV requires a widescreen TV" appears to be entirely correct... "
Then your money must be blood money or something, because you just admitted that it isn't entirely correct.
Who are you working for to be willing to be so blatantly self-contradictory? Usually only PR shills are willing to tolerate that much cognitive dissonance.
Fri Mar 23 21:36:32 2007
"For my money, David Pogue's statement that "Apple TV requires a widescreen TV" appears to be entirely correct... "
Then your money must be blood money or something, because you just admitted that it isn't entirely correct.
Who are you working for to be willing to be so blatantly self-contradictory? Usually only PR shills are willing to tolerate that much cognitive dissonance.
DBL
Fri Mar 23 21:38:54 2007
"It is only a "distribution amplifier", not a converter that will change component to composite video. Its name is the first clue: "4-Way A/V Component Video Distribution Amplifier". Sorry to rain on the parade."
Dang. Not giving up, though. This device will be mine. Oh yes. It will be mine...
Fri Mar 23 21:38:54 2007
"It is only a "distribution amplifier", not a converter that will change component to composite video. Its name is the first clue: "4-Way A/V Component Video Distribution Amplifier". Sorry to rain on the parade."
Dang. Not giving up, though. This device will be mine. Oh yes. It will be mine...
DBL
Fri Mar 23 21:41:29 2007
"http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html"
Yes!! Thank you, Joshua Lange... but $100, eh? Well, it's a lot cheaper than an HDTV for now, and it does look like it could come in quite handy even when I no longer need it for the Apple TV, because I have a lot of composite video devices.
Fri Mar 23 21:41:29 2007
"http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html"
Yes!! Thank you, Joshua Lange... but $100, eh? Well, it's a lot cheaper than an HDTV for now, and it does look like it could come in quite handy even when I no longer need it for the Apple TV, because I have a lot of composite video devices.
A.A. Fussy
Sat Mar 24 01:52:07 2007
I wonder if AppleTV can be used with a 2000 (manual is copyrighted 1998) Sony CRT TV?
Sat Mar 24 01:52:07 2007
I wonder if AppleTV can be used with a 2000 (manual is copyrighted 1998) Sony CRT TV?
DBL
Sat Mar 24 02:05:54 2007
"I wonder if AppleTV can be used with a 2000 (manual is copyrighted 1998) Sony CRT TV?"
How many different models of TV did Sony release between the year 1998 and the year 2000? I'm afraid you'll have to be a lot more specific than that. But you can probably just check yourself. Look on the back. If you see three round jacks labelled 'IN' that are colour-coded red/green/blue, then you're in luck.
Any of the other combinations of the yellow/white/red jacks don't count.
(It sounded like you were in need of some colour-coded advice.)
Sat Mar 24 02:05:54 2007
"I wonder if AppleTV can be used with a 2000 (manual is copyrighted 1998) Sony CRT TV?"
How many different models of TV did Sony release between the year 1998 and the year 2000? I'm afraid you'll have to be a lot more specific than that. But you can probably just check yourself. Look on the back. If you see three round jacks labelled 'IN' that are colour-coded red/green/blue, then you're in luck.
Any of the other combinations of the yellow/white/red jacks don't count.
(It sounded like you were in need of some colour-coded advice.)
sjk
Sat Mar 24 04:31:01 2007
Simon: That blurb you posted from the Toshiba 24AF44 manual is similar to what the manual for my JVC AV-27F704 says:
• Progressive DVD players (players with an output scan of 31.5 KHz) will not work properly with this television. Set you DVD player's output to "interlaced", or non-progressive mode.
The Pioneer DV-C505 DVD changer I purchased several years before the TV doesn't support progressive scan so it wasn't worthwhile to pay more for a TV with progressive support at that time.
Good to get confirmation Apple TV supports 480i (contradicting Apple's published specs), though that's not enough of a temptation to replace my EyeHome (clunky UI and all) since so much of my current video archive is EyeTV recordings and DVD rips in EyeHome-compatible MPEG-2. Wireless streaming my H.264 content would be nice but for now that'll remain trapped on my Macs.
Sat Mar 24 04:31:01 2007
Simon: That blurb you posted from the Toshiba 24AF44 manual is similar to what the manual for my JVC AV-27F704 says:
• Progressive DVD players (players with an output scan of 31.5 KHz) will not work properly with this television. Set you DVD player's output to "interlaced", or non-progressive mode.
The Pioneer DV-C505 DVD changer I purchased several years before the TV doesn't support progressive scan so it wasn't worthwhile to pay more for a TV with progressive support at that time.
Good to get confirmation Apple TV supports 480i (contradicting Apple's published specs), though that's not enough of a temptation to replace my EyeHome (clunky UI and all) since so much of my current video archive is EyeTV recordings and DVD rips in EyeHome-compatible MPEG-2. Wireless streaming my H.264 content would be nice but for now that'll remain trapped on my Macs.
gabe
Sat Mar 24 10:37:24 2007
when i know apple tv doesn't support 480i, it really break my heart because I've been playing some 640 x 360 resolution h264 movie on my CRT TV and I think they look okay. Anyway I just wonder can you check the component input of your TV set, what does it say next to the component input? The photo attach in your blog entry indicate that tv support progressive scan mode (Y, Pb, Pr), while tv with 480i support say something else. So i want to make sure your TV actually doesn't support 480p before i get mine .. :)
Sat Mar 24 10:37:24 2007
when i know apple tv doesn't support 480i, it really break my heart because I've been playing some 640 x 360 resolution h264 movie on my CRT TV and I think they look okay. Anyway I just wonder can you check the component input of your TV set, what does it say next to the component input? The photo attach in your blog entry indicate that tv support progressive scan mode (Y, Pb, Pr), while tv with 480i support say something else. So i want to make sure your TV actually doesn't support 480p before i get mine .. :)
gabe
Sat Mar 24 10:40:10 2007
one more thing: in my Sony tv which support 480i only, the text next to component cable port are "Y, Cb, CR" (IN some tv it could be Y, B-Y, R-Y)
Sat Mar 24 10:40:10 2007
one more thing: in my Sony tv which support 480i only, the text next to component cable port are "Y, Cb, CR" (IN some tv it could be Y, B-Y, R-Y)
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Sat Mar 24 11:08:27 2007
meep: That's an interesting idea, but what sort of input device would you use? MCE devices have much more robust input possibilities.
Predrag: I'm not sure who "the rest of us" are, but in many, many places around the US, no cable box is required. I have one, but I have two other TVs that don't have a box and which receive far more than "a few network channels". That said, a TV tuner in the AppleTV isn't terribly useful unless there's PVR capabilities, which I also don't think are that important.
Simon: No - have a look at the picture in the article. The AppleTV outputs 480i, in addition to other options. As noted in the Updates, it appears my TV may be doing 'simulated widescreen', to handle a 16:9 picture. I can't say it absolutely will work with your TV, but it sounds like it will in at least some fashion.
BitBoy: No. The AppleTV has full control. iTunes does nothing as far as controlling the device, it merely sends files to the device by syncing. "navigating exclusively using the ATV remote and TV menu seems way too cumbersome for large music libraries." This is absolutely correct - it's far from ideal.
rY: I've posted a few pictures above - have a look. As far as a black- border, there is none.
Nick: What sort of "standard AV receiver" are you talking about? When the AppleTV first came out, I looked for a way to convert Component (3 video cables, Red, Blue, Green) to Composite (1 video cable, yellow), and found nothing.
Y-Not: MooCow below reports success. I just ripped a very short movie and played it, it looked great. See the photos above.
Jr0m: While impressive, that hack isn't exactly useful for people in the real world yet. Anything requiring hardware hacking to play video formats is unlikely to cut it. HD expansion, I may consider that myself. Too bad they're 2.5" drives, and thus not especially inexpensive.
Joshua Lange: Nice link! I worry for them though - a TV that only has S-video/composite video ins seems unlikely to have the needed 16:9 adjustments. I guess we'll see what happens, but this is the type of adapter I'd been looking for (and never found). At $100 however, it's pretty pricey - that money could be put towards a new TV.
MooCow: Thanks for the info - I need to test that out.
DBL: Be nice now 8). I'd have to agree with the idea though - David's statement wasn't "entirely correct" nor even really "correct".
I'd say $100 for the conversion is a bit much, and as noted above, it may well not work as expected or at all, if the receiving TV can't handle 16:9. Make sure they have a return policy, I'd say 8)/
kidmidnight: I imagine that was aimed at me - thanks for continuing the high quality of discourse on the internet. Anyhow, the point (which could serve to be better written I'd say) is that iTunes picks up on 3rd-party QuickTime plugins, while AppleTV can't (without hacking anyway). "iTunes can be extended to support additional formats, while AppleTV cannot (currently/without hacking)".
sjk: I used EyeHome with a couple different devices, and for me it was just terrible (both EyeHome and really, the devices). I'm interested to hear of anyone using it in practice, really 8). But if it works, keep it for now I'd say. AppleTV impresses me by working better than any previous solution, but you've got a working setup.
gabe: Those images are pulled from the web, but they match what I have.The P doesn't mean/indicate "progressive" at all, as far as I know. YPbPr is simply the abbreviation for analog component inputs. TVs with 480i, like mine, use the Y PB PR abbreviations.
My AppleTV is operating in 480i mode, and the TV is receiving a 480i signal.
All that said, I don't guarantee any of this, I'm simply reporting my experience.
It sounds like your Sony TV has digital component inputs. See the above Wikipedia link.
C. Lee Smith
Sat Mar 24 11:40:13 2007
In the spirit of the movie trailers, why not pull down the current weather conditions and forecast for my zip code automatically? How about sports scores of my favorite teams? How about NHL highlights from the previous night?
Instead of having to log onto my computer, when my wife wants to know if it's going to rain today, I simply turn the video source to the Apple TV.
Sat Mar 24 11:40:13 2007
In the spirit of the movie trailers, why not pull down the current weather conditions and forecast for my zip code automatically? How about sports scores of my favorite teams? How about NHL highlights from the previous night?
Instead of having to log onto my computer, when my wife wants to know if it's going to rain today, I simply turn the video source to the Apple TV.
amar
Sat Mar 24 13:15:20 2007
My tv is sony kp61 inches. projection tv. it has only composite and s video connections. it is 1999 model. it is not getting the picture in color on 480I. only black and white. any idea how to fix this problem ? thanks
Sat Mar 24 13:15:20 2007
My tv is sony kp61 inches. projection tv. it has only composite and s video connections. it is 1999 model. it is not getting the picture in color on 480I. only black and white. any idea how to fix this problem ? thanks
Jens
Sat Mar 24 13:30:59 2007
The screenshots you posted above look like they need to be squished vertically, like playing an anamorphic widescreen DVD on an non-anamorphic TV. If you want to be 100% sure, take a picture of a circle (or something other that's round) and display it on your TV. I'm pretty sure it'll look like an egg on your TV...
Most european TVs have a 16:9 "switch" built into 4:3 TVs because of the PalPlus system, US-Branded TVs have the same circuitry (and composite inputs) but are lacking the button on the remote. Magnavox is a US-Branded Phillips TV I think.
Sat Mar 24 13:30:59 2007
The screenshots you posted above look like they need to be squished vertically, like playing an anamorphic widescreen DVD on an non-anamorphic TV. If you want to be 100% sure, take a picture of a circle (or something other that's round) and display it on your TV. I'm pretty sure it'll look like an egg on your TV...
Most european TVs have a 16:9 "switch" built into 4:3 TVs because of the PalPlus system, US-Branded TVs have the same circuitry (and composite inputs) but are lacking the button on the remote. Magnavox is a US-Branded Phillips TV I think.
MooCow
Sat Mar 24 13:31:41 2007
Amar: How can you even connect the AppleTV to your Sony KP61 if it only has composite and S-Video inputs? If you're feeding a single cable from the three components cables to your composite input, it's no wonder it shows up in black and white.
You need a composite-to-Svideo converter.
Sat Mar 24 13:31:41 2007
Amar: How can you even connect the AppleTV to your Sony KP61 if it only has composite and S-Video inputs? If you're feeding a single cable from the three components cables to your composite input, it's no wonder it shows up in black and white.
You need a composite-to-Svideo converter.
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Sat Mar 24 13:42:25 2007
C. Lee Smith: I agree that this would be a great addition. If you've ever seen the Wii in action, you can see how nice it is to have a sort of "simplified internet" available.
These devices have net access, they ought to use it. I wouldn't be surprised to see such additions in the future.
amar: How are you getting the signal into your TV?
Steve Roberts
Sat Mar 24 13:52:51 2007
For UK / European people needing to convert YUV component to RGB SCART, I found this...
http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=APT2E
Sat Mar 24 13:52:51 2007
For UK / European people needing to convert YUV component to RGB SCART, I found this...
http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=APT2E
A.A. Fussy
Sat Mar 24 16:57:49 2007
My CRT TV is a KV-XF25M30 (4:3 with no simulated widescreen mode)-but it does seem to have the required inputs. But it's more suited to HD TV's.
Sat Mar 24 16:57:49 2007
My CRT TV is a KV-XF25M30 (4:3 with no simulated widescreen mode)-but it does seem to have the required inputs. But it's more suited to HD TV's.
sjk
Sat Mar 24 19:22:22 2007
Paul: Re: I used EyeHome with a couple different devices, and for me it was just terrible (both EyeHome and really, the devices).
Not sure what you mean by "different devices". I've got EyeHome connected to an AirPort Express (also used as an AirTunes client) on my 802.11g WLAN, with S-Video output to the TV and S/PDIF optical output to the receiver. EyeHome software runs on one or both Macs downstairs. Most content is on FireWire hard drives, with primary folders on them linked into ~/Movies so EyeHome can navigate them. I create/delete aliases to specific EyeTV recordings in EyeTV Archive folders on both Macs for EyeHome to find; that reduces clutter in the UI.
It's a well-balanced, scalable setup for the devices/resources I'm using. Excluding EyeHome the TV seems the weakest link, though a better one would have me wanting to upgrade other components. Apple TV could still be a first step for me towards HDTV, while retaining the wireless streaming (non-HD) that's spoiled me and not immediately begging for replacement as other components are upgraded to achieve a complete analog->digital migration. Certainly not without better support for my current media, like I mentioned earlier. But I'm more likely to focus on finding the right TV first, then replace other devices that it makes seem inferior. Oh, a big reason to even consider replacing EyeHome with Apple TV first is for my wife's sake.
I'm interested to hear of anyone using it in practice, really 8). But if it works, keep it for now I'd say. AppleTV impresses me by working better than any previous solution, but you've got a working setup.
Yep, I've been quite satisfied with it as a lower-end/budget analog-centric setup but the pull towards digital/HDTV grows stronger. And I want everything more easily accessible for my wife in the future. This was just my semi-geeky prototype. :)
Sat Mar 24 19:22:22 2007
Paul: Re: I used EyeHome with a couple different devices, and for me it was just terrible (both EyeHome and really, the devices).
Not sure what you mean by "different devices". I've got EyeHome connected to an AirPort Express (also used as an AirTunes client) on my 802.11g WLAN, with S-Video output to the TV and S/PDIF optical output to the receiver. EyeHome software runs on one or both Macs downstairs. Most content is on FireWire hard drives, with primary folders on them linked into ~/Movies so EyeHome can navigate them. I create/delete aliases to specific EyeTV recordings in EyeTV Archive folders on both Macs for EyeHome to find; that reduces clutter in the UI.
It's a well-balanced, scalable setup for the devices/resources I'm using. Excluding EyeHome the TV seems the weakest link, though a better one would have me wanting to upgrade other components. Apple TV could still be a first step for me towards HDTV, while retaining the wireless streaming (non-HD) that's spoiled me and not immediately begging for replacement as other components are upgraded to achieve a complete analog->digital migration. Certainly not without better support for my current media, like I mentioned earlier. But I'm more likely to focus on finding the right TV first, then replace other devices that it makes seem inferior. Oh, a big reason to even consider replacing EyeHome with Apple TV first is for my wife's sake.
I'm interested to hear of anyone using it in practice, really 8). But if it works, keep it for now I'd say. AppleTV impresses me by working better than any previous solution, but you've got a working setup.
Yep, I've been quite satisfied with it as a lower-end/budget analog-centric setup but the pull towards digital/HDTV grows stronger. And I want everything more easily accessible for my wife in the future. This was just my semi-geeky prototype. :)
Dave
Sat Mar 24 19:59:30 2007
Regarding the fact that Apple TV doesn't support most older (non-HD) television sets; remember that this is Apple we're talking about. Remember when the first iMac came out? No floppy drive, no standard serial ports. Mac OS X no longer supports Classic mode. This is standard Apple practice that was recently described by Tim Cook (I believe): "We skate to where the puck will be." Apple refuses to get bogged down in all of the so-called "legacy" support issues, and while that may be a detriment to some folks, it is a positive to others. In any case, the market will determine whether Apple has created another iPod or a Newton.
As for me, even though we just bought a new 65" Mitsubishi 1080p rear-projection TV last year, I think I will sit out version 1.0 of this new device. I'm really interested in renting - not buying - movies, as we seldom watch them more than once (I have and will continue to buy TV episodes of shows like Battlestar Galactica and 24 when we happen to miss the week's installment and I want to get caught up before next week's show). Apple TV would be really cool if the studios would allow for first-run showings at the same time as the theatres get them - in that case, we might buy a few movies (the money we would save on popcorn and sodas would more than offset the cost of the movie). I also would like to see an option where my music played on my TV with the iTunes visualizer - that alone might tip me towards the "buy now" side. Finally, I don't like the fact that photos can only be displayed from a computer that is synced - not streamed. Just my .02 worth.
Sat Mar 24 19:59:30 2007
Regarding the fact that Apple TV doesn't support most older (non-HD) television sets; remember that this is Apple we're talking about. Remember when the first iMac came out? No floppy drive, no standard serial ports. Mac OS X no longer supports Classic mode. This is standard Apple practice that was recently described by Tim Cook (I believe): "We skate to where the puck will be." Apple refuses to get bogged down in all of the so-called "legacy" support issues, and while that may be a detriment to some folks, it is a positive to others. In any case, the market will determine whether Apple has created another iPod or a Newton.
As for me, even though we just bought a new 65" Mitsubishi 1080p rear-projection TV last year, I think I will sit out version 1.0 of this new device. I'm really interested in renting - not buying - movies, as we seldom watch them more than once (I have and will continue to buy TV episodes of shows like Battlestar Galactica and 24 when we happen to miss the week's installment and I want to get caught up before next week's show). Apple TV would be really cool if the studios would allow for first-run showings at the same time as the theatres get them - in that case, we might buy a few movies (the money we would save on popcorn and sodas would more than offset the cost of the movie). I also would like to see an option where my music played on my TV with the iTunes visualizer - that alone might tip me towards the "buy now" side. Finally, I don't like the fact that photos can only be displayed from a computer that is synced - not streamed. Just my .02 worth.
Wiggin
Sat Mar 24 20:14:56 2007
My 3-4 year old Sharp standard definition TV has component inputs, but does not support progressive scan signals. In other words, it's 480i not 480p. But it has a setting called "v-compression". Other manufacturers may call is something else. I'm assuming this is what Apple's rep told Pogue was "simulated widescreen". Essentially what it does is refocus the electron beam to shrink the picture vertically. I have my DVD player set to think it's hooked up to a 16:9 TV. It's a noticeably sharper picture than having the DVD player output a letterboxed 4:3 picture. So it's great news that AppleTV supports 480i!
As for squished videos, my guess as to why your pictures look fine is that an analog component video signal is going to fill whatever the shape of your screen is. If your video source is 4:3 aspect ratio (640 x 480) it'll look fine on a 4:3 TV on component video, but get stretched on a 16:9. That's why when you go someplace like Best Buy, you'll see dozens of TVs all showing the same video source with some looking stretched (which I personally can't stand) and some looking fine. They are sending the same signal to all their TVs (lazy) and the widescreen TVs will stretch it to fit the 16:9 shape and the standard def screens will squish it to their 4:3 proportions. My bet is that if you sent the same signal to a widescreen TV it would look stretched and you'd have to use the TVs aspect ration settings to add black bars on the side to compensate. I'd further guess that if you sent a truly widescreen dimensioned video (640 x 426) to your AppleTV it would look squished on your TV. On my TV, I'd then just turn on the v-compression to compensate.
Sat Mar 24 20:14:56 2007
My 3-4 year old Sharp standard definition TV has component inputs, but does not support progressive scan signals. In other words, it's 480i not 480p. But it has a setting called "v-compression". Other manufacturers may call is something else. I'm assuming this is what Apple's rep told Pogue was "simulated widescreen". Essentially what it does is refocus the electron beam to shrink the picture vertically. I have my DVD player set to think it's hooked up to a 16:9 TV. It's a noticeably sharper picture than having the DVD player output a letterboxed 4:3 picture. So it's great news that AppleTV supports 480i!
As for squished videos, my guess as to why your pictures look fine is that an analog component video signal is going to fill whatever the shape of your screen is. If your video source is 4:3 aspect ratio (640 x 480) it'll look fine on a 4:3 TV on component video, but get stretched on a 16:9. That's why when you go someplace like Best Buy, you'll see dozens of TVs all showing the same video source with some looking stretched (which I personally can't stand) and some looking fine. They are sending the same signal to all their TVs (lazy) and the widescreen TVs will stretch it to fit the 16:9 shape and the standard def screens will squish it to their 4:3 proportions. My bet is that if you sent the same signal to a widescreen TV it would look stretched and you'd have to use the TVs aspect ration settings to add black bars on the side to compensate. I'd further guess that if you sent a truly widescreen dimensioned video (640 x 426) to your AppleTV it would look squished on your TV. On my TV, I'd then just turn on the v-compression to compensate.
amar
Sat Mar 24 21:06:35 2007
I simply connected the output of apple TV to the TV input. Red, yellow and white wires from the TV are connected to the three ports of TV. Only one color match, that is the red color. adjusted the resolution of apple TV to 480i. this is the only setting that I can see a picture. I can review trailers, tv shows, etc. but only in Black and white. no color at all.
Sat Mar 24 21:06:35 2007
I simply connected the output of apple TV to the TV input. Red, yellow and white wires from the TV are connected to the three ports of TV. Only one color match, that is the red color. adjusted the resolution of apple TV to 480i. this is the only setting that I can see a picture. I can review trailers, tv shows, etc. but only in Black and white. no color at all.
Thierry
Sat Mar 24 21:20:35 2007
German hama has also a cheap YUV -> SCART
converter, cost € 85.(code 42513).
http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId113956/action1293
Thierry
Sat Mar 24 21:20:35 2007
German hama has also a cheap YUV -> SCART
converter, cost € 85.(code 42513).
http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId113956/action1293
Thierry
sjk
Sat Mar 24 23:32:27 2007
Wiggin, Re: I have my DVD player set to think it's hooked up to a 16:9 TV. It's a noticeably sharper picture than having the DVD player output a letterboxed 4:3 picture.
When I play a widescreen DVD my SDTV displays it with black bars at the top/bottom of the screen. Is that "simulated widescreen"? And I play a fullscreen DVD it fills the entire TV screen. In both cases that happens automatically, without adjusting any DVD or TV settings. I can set different aspect ratios on the DVD player, but not the TV, though I don't see any advantage to doing that. Does that sound like my TV is automatically making adjustments to accommodate the DVD aspect ratio, which might also make it more compatible with Apple TV 480i output without the goofy resizing/squishing some people have described?
Sat Mar 24 23:32:27 2007
Wiggin, Re: I have my DVD player set to think it's hooked up to a 16:9 TV. It's a noticeably sharper picture than having the DVD player output a letterboxed 4:3 picture.
When I play a widescreen DVD my SDTV displays it with black bars at the top/bottom of the screen. Is that "simulated widescreen"? And I play a fullscreen DVD it fills the entire TV screen. In both cases that happens automatically, without adjusting any DVD or TV settings. I can set different aspect ratios on the DVD player, but not the TV, though I don't see any advantage to doing that. Does that sound like my TV is automatically making adjustments to accommodate the DVD aspect ratio, which might also make it more compatible with Apple TV 480i output without the goofy resizing/squishing some people have described?
Dennis
Sun Mar 25 10:30:28 2007
What about Airport Express functionality? Can I simply select the AppleTV as an output in iTunes? And the AppleTV cannot be a WiFi access point ...
Sun Mar 25 10:30:28 2007
What about Airport Express functionality? Can I simply select the AppleTV as an output in iTunes? And the AppleTV cannot be a WiFi access point ...
Wiggin
Sun Mar 25 11:59:14 2007
sjk: If I had to guess, I'd say it's your DVD player that is putting the black bars on the screen. It assumes your TV is 4:3 and generates a corresponding signal. I believe that composite (or any other analog signal, I think) doesn't actually send aspect ratio information. It sends the video info along with a sync signal (start a new frame here type of thing). With no other action taken, the picture is going to fill the frame regardless of the intended aspect ratio. So the aspect ratio option on your DVD player is really a "add black bars" or "don't add black bars" setting. If you tell it to "add black bars" (4:3 setting) it wastes valuable pixels on drawing the bars. If you then send that signal to a widescreen TV (remember the DVD player has no way of knowing what it's connected to) you'll get a picture that's both stretched horizontally and squished horizontally because the widescreen TV is still going to draw the black bars at the top and bottom!
Sun Mar 25 11:59:14 2007
sjk: If I had to guess, I'd say it's your DVD player that is putting the black bars on the screen. It assumes your TV is 4:3 and generates a corresponding signal. I believe that composite (or any other analog signal, I think) doesn't actually send aspect ratio information. It sends the video info along with a sync signal (start a new frame here type of thing). With no other action taken, the picture is going to fill the frame regardless of the intended aspect ratio. So the aspect ratio option on your DVD player is really a "add black bars" or "don't add black bars" setting. If you tell it to "add black bars" (4:3 setting) it wastes valuable pixels on drawing the bars. If you then send that signal to a widescreen TV (remember the DVD player has no way of knowing what it's connected to) you'll get a picture that's both stretched horizontally and squished horizontally because the widescreen TV is still going to draw the black bars at the top and bottom!
Wiggin
Sun Mar 25 12:06:12 2007
sjk: Since I never explicitly answered your question, no, I don't think your TV has simulated widescreen. If you play back 640x480 video from an Apple TV is MAY look ok, but I'm going to guess that any true widescreen content will look squished because AppleTV won't put the black bars at the top and bottom like your DVD player does.
This is likely why Apple doesn't advertise the 480i option. It's hit or miss as to whether a TV will work properly just because it has component inputs. Too many customers would have a bad experience and/or return the device. And even though I think the video would be OK on my TV, I'm wondering how bad the menus would look on a 480i. If you click on the enlarged photos in the original article above, you can see the lettering looks pretty crappy!
Sun Mar 25 12:06:12 2007
sjk: Since I never explicitly answered your question, no, I don't think your TV has simulated widescreen. If you play back 640x480 video from an Apple TV is MAY look ok, but I'm going to guess that any true widescreen content will look squished because AppleTV won't put the black bars at the top and bottom like your DVD player does.
This is likely why Apple doesn't advertise the 480i option. It's hit or miss as to whether a TV will work properly just because it has component inputs. Too many customers would have a bad experience and/or return the device. And even though I think the video would be OK on my TV, I'm wondering how bad the menus would look on a 480i. If you click on the enlarged photos in the original article above, you can see the lettering looks pretty crappy!
Steve Carpenter
Sun Mar 25 12:51:28 2007
Very surprising omission, considering the heart of iTunes audio was the ability to rip CD content into iTunes. It now seems that the heart of iTunes for Video is to purchase content...
Remember, "Rip-Mix-Burn"? Except now in the UK we have, "Wait (for content)-Purchase (Pixar shorts only available)-Watch". As Pixar shorts are the only content available on iTunes in the UK, otherwise you have to import and then convert via Quicktime to watch on Apple TV. This honestly sounds as bad as one of those Mac switcher ads when Apple talk about cobbling bits of software together to edit photo's and make a web site...
It seems content is somewhat lacking in iTunes as it was for Audio a few years ago, but that is not the point.
I think this is Apple TV's biggest undoing (yes I know about DVD copying) but if I have the original master (as I do for all CD/DVDs I own) this is a weird omission... ...along with multichannel sound, that is.
An I getting one? Oh yes! But mainly to play back my audio content from my Mini (as a server) in my sitting room as I got fedup of using the Airport Express without a GUI.
My view is that Apple TV = Airport Express + GUI, but until importing and compressing of Eye TV content and DVD's is native within iTunes I can't say this is going to make me stop using my DVD or TiVo in the UK for the short term...
Sun Mar 25 12:51:28 2007
Very surprising omission, considering the heart of iTunes audio was the ability to rip CD content into iTunes. It now seems that the heart of iTunes for Video is to purchase content...
Remember, "Rip-Mix-Burn"? Except now in the UK we have, "Wait (for content)-Purchase (Pixar shorts only available)-Watch". As Pixar shorts are the only content available on iTunes in the UK, otherwise you have to import and then convert via Quicktime to watch on Apple TV. This honestly sounds as bad as one of those Mac switcher ads when Apple talk about cobbling bits of software together to edit photo's and make a web site...
It seems content is somewhat lacking in iTunes as it was for Audio a few years ago, but that is not the point.
I think this is Apple TV's biggest undoing (yes I know about DVD copying) but if I have the original master (as I do for all CD/DVDs I own) this is a weird omission... ...along with multichannel sound, that is.
An I getting one? Oh yes! But mainly to play back my audio content from my Mini (as a server) in my sitting room as I got fedup of using the Airport Express without a GUI.
My view is that Apple TV = Airport Express + GUI, but until importing and compressing of Eye TV content and DVD's is native within iTunes I can't say this is going to make me stop using my DVD or TiVo in the UK for the short term...
sjk
Sun Mar 25 19:00:13 2007
Wiggin: Thanks for the detailed explanation, which corresponds with what I discovered after posting when checking my DVD player settings and the manual. Even if Apple TV had better compatibility with my video library it looks like getting a better TV before anything else makes the most sense.
Steve Carpenter: You could add "+ iPod" to your Apple TV equation, to some extent.
One more thought… Done right (technical issues aside for now), Apple TV could have more appeal to certain potential customers if the iTunes Store added something analogous to the NetFlix rental model instead of being limited to movie purchases. Of course that doesn't help folks who can't buy from iTS even if they wanted to. Seems to me for Apple TV to have broader success it needs enough support for content from wherever and however customers want to obtain it.
Sun Mar 25 19:00:13 2007
Wiggin: Thanks for the detailed explanation, which corresponds with what I discovered after posting when checking my DVD player settings and the manual. Even if Apple TV had better compatibility with my video library it looks like getting a better TV before anything else makes the most sense.
Steve Carpenter: You could add "+ iPod" to your Apple TV equation, to some extent.
One more thought… Done right (technical issues aside for now), Apple TV could have more appeal to certain potential customers if the iTunes Store added something analogous to the NetFlix rental model instead of being limited to movie purchases. Of course that doesn't help folks who can't buy from iTS even if they wanted to. Seems to me for Apple TV to have broader success it needs enough support for content from wherever and however customers want to obtain it.
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Mon Mar 26 01:24:03 2007
sjk: Whup, I meant EyeConnect, Elgato's software for working with other media devices. I also tried an EyeHome, and wasn't satisfied, but I was talking about EyeConnect. The 802.11g was a big issue. But your setup sounds pretty nice, and obviously if it works, it works. Like you said though, "semi-geeky". Not terrible sleek, would be another way of putting it I think.
Dave: That's actually a Wayne Gretzky quote that's been appropriated 8). And you're right, Apple loves to push new technology and make it standard. This can be great, or frustrating. But the thing here is, the device DOES still support some older TVs, and Apple doesn't mention it. As far as the lack of composite/s-video outputs, that's a different matter.
As far as new business models for movies, it will be interesting to see what happens. It certainly feels like we're moving towards them. As far as renting goes, BitTorrent has a very interesting setup, with $3.99 rentals that have decent freedom (watch it within 2 or 4 weeks, 24 hours to watch it from the time you start it, if I recall). Sadly, it's only on Windows.
I'd also like to see a visualizer on the TV - I've been using the device for a lot of music lately, and the album art cover is nice, but dull.
Wiggin: I know it's all looked great to me thus far, including purchased content from iTMS, so I'm satisfied. 8)
Brian: No - nothing from your Mac can be streamed to the AppleTV, it just pulls files. It doesn't display iTunes or anything like that.
Dennis: No, the AppleTV is not available as an AirPort Express device in iTunes. As for a WiFi access point, no, certainly not. This isn't a router, it's a real computer.
Wiggin: As far as the menus, it looks great - that photo is very close-up. From the couch, it looks crisp and clear.
Steve Carpenter: You're correct that right now things are cobbled together. But I think that's an issue with how new it all is. Give it some time to smooth out and improve. This is all new within, what, 2 years? 3? The iPod is only 5.
As for using it for a music-only device, I don't know that I'd recommend it. I've been using it heavily for a few days now, and it's OK, but I prefer my Squeezebox (so much hardware). The inability to create an on-the-go playlist, and the slow/clunky navigation (not being able to jump to bands that start with R, for instance) combine to make it so-so at best. Hopefully, there will be updates, but we'll have to see.
sjk: Ideally, AppleTV would play any and all types of content, right? But if Apple has to support it, and they can only get a small bit of content to work flawlessly, they'd rather have that. I think they'd rather have a moderate hit that also helps the iTunes store continue to grow than a bigger hit fraught with support issues. Further, supporting "other content" may well tick off the content industries (if they're supporting pirated content) and run into licensing issues that aren't worth the money or hassle.
Also keep in mind, Apple TV isn't the only thing supporting this stuff - iPods do. That's a huge installed base that keeps getting bigger, making it more appealing for content companies to buddy up with Apple. Thinking that way, why would Apple support other stores, when they can just wait for the content to come to their store, #1 in the world in so many ways? If the iTunes store starts to falter, I think you may see better support for other stores on the iPod and AppleTV.
Man, I'm exhausted with this article 8).
Hartmut Greiser
Mon Mar 26 09:21:32 2007
Maybe the good people at Rogue Amoeba have an answer: is there anything to be done to get EyeTV material on my TV? You can of course export this stuff to iTunes if you accept iPod Video quality and if you don't mind your Intel Mac 2.0 GHz to crunch bits for about 10 hours.
If I get a professional answer to the extent that "Sorry, there never will be a way to get decent video quality within a resonable timespan on your TV set other than with stuff you purchase from Apple" than I will know where to stuff AppleTV.
Hartmut
Mon Mar 26 09:21:32 2007
Maybe the good people at Rogue Amoeba have an answer: is there anything to be done to get EyeTV material on my TV? You can of course export this stuff to iTunes if you accept iPod Video quality and if you don't mind your Intel Mac 2.0 GHz to crunch bits for about 10 hours.
If I get a professional answer to the extent that "Sorry, there never will be a way to get decent video quality within a resonable timespan on your TV set other than with stuff you purchase from Apple" than I will know where to stuff AppleTV.
Hartmut
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Mon Mar 26 12:10:53 2007
As far as an official way of doing it, the conversion is the only way of doing it. I can't say what Apple will do in the future - I hope they'll support more video formats directly/officially, as noted in the article.
As far as EyeTV goes, I have it on good authority that there will be a better/cleaner/faster conversion method available in the future. I'd suggest contacting Elgato on this - they know the current solution is not ideal. Unfortunately, the buck really stops with Apple, and they're not terribly inclined to support other formats right now it seems.
Jamie Ciocco
Mon Mar 26 12:33:49 2007
amar: Component video divides the picture signal into three parts or components, hence the name. One cable sends a straight black & white signal, while the color information is divided between the other two cables.
Composite video (which your TV has), uses only one cable to send a single signal, i.e. a "composite" of all the brightness and color information.
What you are doing is sending the black & white-only component output from your appleTV to your television set, which is why you only get a black and white picture. Unfortunately, although getting a black & white picture is easy, there's no easy way to get from there to a color picture -- converting the color signal from the other two outputs is a more complicated process that requires an adapter like the $100 one at svideo.com/appletv2tv.html (as others have mentioned, it's an open question whether this adapter handles widescreen anamorphic videos without making them look all stretched).
Mon Mar 26 12:33:49 2007
amar: Component video divides the picture signal into three parts or components, hence the name. One cable sends a straight black & white signal, while the color information is divided between the other two cables.
Composite video (which your TV has), uses only one cable to send a single signal, i.e. a "composite" of all the brightness and color information.
What you are doing is sending the black & white-only component output from your appleTV to your television set, which is why you only get a black and white picture. Unfortunately, although getting a black & white picture is easy, there's no easy way to get from there to a color picture -- converting the color signal from the other two outputs is a more complicated process that requires an adapter like the $100 one at svideo.com/appletv2tv.html (as others have mentioned, it's an open question whether this adapter handles widescreen anamorphic videos without making them look all stretched).
John Slavin
Mon Mar 26 22:26:14 2007
Somebody should start a page that lists the TVs that work or don't work with AppleTV.
Mon Mar 26 22:26:14 2007
Somebody should start a page that lists the TVs that work or don't work with AppleTV.
sjk
Tue Mar 27 05:10:03 2007
Paul,
Ahh, you meant EyeConnect. If I weren't drowning in Eyes I might have guessed that.
Figured I could get away using a term like "semi-geeky" to describe EyeHome here. Something like "Not terrible sleek" (or "terribly unsleek" would be fun) might be a more comprehendible description to my less technically adept friends. Anything to avoid the annoyingly vague "it sucks" to describe anything regardless of how horrible it is.
About minimal format compatibility formats -- I've used a similar counter-argument to yours in other discussions that it simplifies Apple's support issues. Another angle is that it's possible to import video content into iTunes that Apple TV won't play and I suspect they'll have to deal with some support fallout from that. I agree with you about Apple wanting to "entice" more content to the iTunes Store and possibly making iPod/Apple TV product adjustments depending on how well that succeeds/fails.
Interesting what you mentioning about Elgato and EyeTV. The "eyetv & EyeTV - A Perfect Match" slogan on their site is certainly stretching the truth, eh?
EyeTV 200 can encode MPEG-4 (part 2) but that quality was poor in tests I did about a year ago. Elgato dropped MPEG-4 encoding in subsequent products. Miglia's new TVMax+ has native MPEG-4 encoding, touted for Apple TV compatibility. I asked about that and other issues (in)directly related to Apple TV on their forum but haven't followed up yet. Never had contact before but got curious to compare their reaction to Apple TV with Elgato's. Miglia didn't renew their contract for EyeTV software. Hmm.
John Slavin: <I>Somebody should start a page that lists the TVs that work or don't work with AppleTV.</i>
I've noticed a few posts on forums with that idea and had though of mentioning that in my first post here. Maybe someone already knows of a semi-official location for that information?
Right, Paul, this has gotten exhausting though I appreciate what I've learned from everyone's feedback here. Thanks!
Tue Mar 27 05:10:03 2007
Paul,
Ahh, you meant EyeConnect. If I weren't drowning in Eyes I might have guessed that.
Figured I could get away using a term like "semi-geeky" to describe EyeHome here. Something like "Not terrible sleek" (or "terribly unsleek" would be fun) might be a more comprehendible description to my less technically adept friends. Anything to avoid the annoyingly vague "it sucks" to describe anything regardless of how horrible it is.
About minimal format compatibility formats -- I've used a similar counter-argument to yours in other discussions that it simplifies Apple's support issues. Another angle is that it's possible to import video content into iTunes that Apple TV won't play and I suspect they'll have to deal with some support fallout from that. I agree with you about Apple wanting to "entice" more content to the iTunes Store and possibly making iPod/Apple TV product adjustments depending on how well that succeeds/fails.
Interesting what you mentioning about Elgato and EyeTV. The "eyetv & EyeTV - A Perfect Match" slogan on their site is certainly stretching the truth, eh?
EyeTV 200 can encode MPEG-4 (part 2) but that quality was poor in tests I did about a year ago. Elgato dropped MPEG-4 encoding in subsequent products. Miglia's new TVMax+ has native MPEG-4 encoding, touted for Apple TV compatibility. I asked about that and other issues (in)directly related to Apple TV on their forum but haven't followed up yet. Never had contact before but got curious to compare their reaction to Apple TV with Elgato's. Miglia didn't renew their contract for EyeTV software. Hmm.
John Slavin: <I>Somebody should start a page that lists the TVs that work or don't work with AppleTV.</i>
I've noticed a few posts on forums with that idea and had though of mentioning that in my first post here. Maybe someone already knows of a semi-official location for that information?
Right, Paul, this has gotten exhausting though I appreciate what I've learned from everyone's feedback here. Thanks!
R C-R
Tue Mar 27 10:01:18 2007
You said "The most basic thing here is that I was able to hook up the AppleTV to a standard tv and watch video, without distortion or scrunching."
However, in the close-up image it is obvious that the display is scrunched -- note that the gear icon at the top is taller than it is wide (it should be round) & the picture of the Apple TV is also overly tall.
Still, it is nice to know that 480i (& apparently 576i for PAL users) is supported.
Tue Mar 27 10:01:18 2007
You said "The most basic thing here is that I was able to hook up the AppleTV to a standard tv and watch video, without distortion or scrunching."
However, in the close-up image it is obvious that the display is scrunched -- note that the gear icon at the top is taller than it is wide (it should be round) & the picture of the Apple TV is also overly tall.
Still, it is nice to know that 480i (& apparently 576i for PAL users) is supported.
larry
Tue Mar 27 10:10:10 2007
Received my AppleTV last night and I can happily report that it works perfectly with my 7 YEAR OLD Sony Wega 32″ model# kv-32fv15. Hooked up via Component Video. I set the Apple TV to use 480i. I did not have to change any settings on the Sony TV. This model TV is a standard def 4:3 ratio, and displays widescreen video flawlessly.
Tue Mar 27 10:10:10 2007
Received my AppleTV last night and I can happily report that it works perfectly with my 7 YEAR OLD Sony Wega 32″ model# kv-32fv15. Hooked up via Component Video. I set the Apple TV to use 480i. I did not have to change any settings on the Sony TV. This model TV is a standard def 4:3 ratio, and displays widescreen video flawlessly.
prego
Tue Mar 27 10:39:57 2007
For those who have a TV that has a Scart-Interface and it's not more than 8-10 years old it should work with something like this:
http://www.profigoldcables.co.uk/catalog/images/profigold-pgv372.jpg
I think all TV's with Scart-Sockets should be RGB capable, but not sure about this.
Scart-Plugs normaly use RGB output, which is the same as component (Red Green Blue) - you only need a TV capable of RGB and a full switched Scart-Cable to use it with your ordinay DVD-Player or Satelite Receiver. Check their setup and notice the difference between Composite and RGB.
Besides that you need a Compsoite->Scart-RGB Cable to hook the aTV up ;)
Tue Mar 27 10:39:57 2007
For those who have a TV that has a Scart-Interface and it's not more than 8-10 years old it should work with something like this:
http://www.profigoldcables.co.uk/catalog/images/profigold-pgv372.jpg
I think all TV's with Scart-Sockets should be RGB capable, but not sure about this.
Scart-Plugs normaly use RGB output, which is the same as component (Red Green Blue) - you only need a TV capable of RGB and a full switched Scart-Cable to use it with your ordinay DVD-Player or Satelite Receiver. Check their setup and notice the difference between Composite and RGB.
Besides that you need a Compsoite->Scart-RGB Cable to hook the aTV up ;)
Paul (Rogue Amoeba Staff)
Tue Mar 27 11:38:46 2007
John Slavin: I've started a list here, though at the moment it just has two entries. Others who care to add to it, please leave comments. It can be linked to with the link:
http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Article/appleTV-2007-03-22-21-30#up5-2007-03-22
R-C-R: Mm, alright. I've amended that sentence.
larry: Great, it's on the list.
Tak
Tue Mar 27 13:00:58 2007
I was looking around the web for Component to Composite adapters, and found a Component to S-Video adapter for AppleTV that is being pre-ordered! It is expected to ship April 30th for $99 US.
http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html
Hey, has anyone tried hooking it up to an analog Computer monitor that has component inputs? For instance, I have a 19" Samsung monitor that has component input; I imagine that I can just manually adjust the aspect ratio if necessary.
Tue Mar 27 13:00:58 2007
I was looking around the web for Component to Composite adapters, and found a Component to S-Video adapter for AppleTV that is being pre-ordered! It is expected to ship April 30th for $99 US.
http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html
Hey, has anyone tried hooking it up to an analog Computer monitor that has component inputs? For instance, I have a 19" Samsung monitor that has component input; I imagine that I can just manually adjust the aspect ratio if necessary.
Ilias
Tue Mar 27 15:56:40 2007
Just to let you know that a Sony WEGA 27" KV-27FS13 also works fine although it seems that one has to manually switch on the 16:9 enhanced mode from the TV menu so that images are displayed at the right aspect ratio.
Tue Mar 27 15:56:40 2007
Just to let you know that a Sony WEGA 27" KV-27FS13 also works fine although it seems that one has to manually switch on the 16:9 enhanced mode from the TV menu so that images are displayed at the right aspect ratio.
kater
Wed Mar 28 01:52:26 2007
Such long article....
But be helpful to everyone.
Also have a look at the article to transfer DVD, video files to Apple TV:
http://www.dvdtoappletv.net/
Wed Mar 28 01:52:26 2007
Such long article....
But be helpful to everyone.
Also have a look at the article to transfer DVD, video files to Apple TV:
http://www.dvdtoappletv.net/
amar
Wed Mar 28 02:03:41 2007
I tried the RF moduldaor video component adaptor from Radioshack. It did not work. It has a coaxial output and not a composite or S video as my TV has.
I am thinking to buy a new TV, and this could be the best soulution, but I do not think I am going to buy it soon.
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-rf-modulatorvideo-component-adapter--pi-2103095.html
Wed Mar 28 02:03:41 2007
I tried the RF moduldaor video component adaptor from Radioshack. It did not work. It has a coaxial output and not a composite or S video as my TV has.
I am thinking to buy a new TV, and this could be the best soulution, but I do not think I am going to buy it soon.
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-rf-modulatorvideo-component-adapter--pi-2103095.html
alakaboo
Wed Mar 28 02:30:19 2007
I seem to have found a "hidden" video mode that may come in handy for some people trying to hook up a standard (4:3) format television to their new Apple TV.
I have such a display, specifically a Dell 2007FP, connected via a HDMI->DVI cable, and I've been using the 720p mode with the Dell's 16:9 "squish" mode enabled with decent results. The biggest problem is that 4:3 content is letter-boxed on all four sides. 16:9 content looks fine. I've also heard from several people that they don't even have it this good. Read on!
Settings > TV Resolution presents three options: 480p, 720p HD, and 1080i HD. However, when I hold Menu and "+" for six seconds, triggering the "cycle through video modes" function, two additional modes become available: When 480p is checked, 853x480 becomes available, and when 720p HD is checked, 1280x720 becomes available. Critically, however, selecting either of these two options (inexplicably) puts the display into 1280x960 mode. 1280/960 == 4/3.
Putting the Dell back into "fill" mode after making this change allows me to view 16:9 content as before, without any loss of quality, and also allows me to view 4:3 content full screen. What help this will be with other displays and connection methods I can't say, but I thought it worth mentioning...
Wed Mar 28 02:30:19 2007
I seem to have found a "hidden" video mode that may come in handy for some people trying to hook up a standard (4:3) format television to their new Apple TV.
I have such a display, specifically a Dell 2007FP, connected via a HDMI->DVI cable, and I've been using the 720p mode with the Dell's 16:9 "squish" mode enabled with decent results. The biggest problem is that 4:3 content is letter-boxed on all four sides. 16:9 content looks fine. I've also heard from several people that they don't even have it this good. Read on!
Settings > TV Resolution presents three options: 480p, 720p HD, and 1080i HD. However, when I hold Menu and "+" for six seconds, triggering the "cycle through video modes" function, two additional modes become available: When 480p is checked, 853x480 becomes available, and when 720p HD is checked, 1280x720 becomes available. Critically, however, selecting either of these two options (inexplicably) puts the display into 1280x960 mode. 1280/960 == 4/3.
Putting the Dell back into "fill" mode after making this change allows me to view 16:9 content as before, without any loss of quality, and also allows me to view 4:3 content full screen. What help this will be with other displays and connection methods I can't say, but I thought it worth mentioning...
Mac Lads
Wed Mar 28 07:38:35 2007
Just received our Apple TV and failed to get past the initial set up stage - our screen says no signal, although the DVI cable shows on the tv as being connected. Apple Technical Support are none the wiser. Our TV is a year old and has the required ports and resolutions. Has anyone else had this issue??
Wed Mar 28 07:38:35 2007
Just received our Apple TV and failed to get past the initial set up stage - our screen says no signal, although the DVI cable shows on the tv as being connected. Apple Technical Support are none the wiser. Our TV is a year old and has the required ports and resolutions. Has anyone else had this issue??
Sandy Harper
Wed Mar 28 10:29:37 2007
Aside from recent hacks which permit additional codecs to be viewed on Apple TV, it would be REALLY NICE if Airfoil or some variant could be implemented to bypass iTunes completely for streaming (and preloading to the ATV's HD).
Wed Mar 28 10:29:37 2007
Aside from recent hacks which permit additional codecs to be viewed on Apple TV, it would be REALLY NICE if Airfoil or some variant could be implemented to bypass iTunes completely for streaming (and preloading to the ATV's HD).
Lantz
Thu Mar 29 17:04:19 2007
I've had a number of issues using Handbrake or TivoDecode Manager when creating Mpeg-4 for Itunes playback. I found a program called iSquint (Visualhub's free little brother) that has worked flawlessly where these other programs failed me. I strongly recommend it.
When using TDM, I create a native Mpeg-2 instead of the Mpeg-4 choice and then use iSquint to conver this file to Mpeg-4. I choose the H.264 encode and TV optimized options.
Thu Mar 29 17:04:19 2007
I've had a number of issues using Handbrake or TivoDecode Manager when creating Mpeg-4 for Itunes playback. I found a program called iSquint (Visualhub's free little brother) that has worked flawlessly where these other programs failed me. I strongly recommend it.
When using TDM, I create a native Mpeg-2 instead of the Mpeg-4 choice and then use iSquint to conver this file to Mpeg-4. I choose the H.264 encode and TV optimized options.
Mike
Thu Mar 29 22:08:37 2007
I'm disappointed by the AppleTV. I have a Mac Mini, but it doesn't have component outputs, (or HDMI for that matter) and it would be difficult to hook up other devices to it.
I'd rather see from Apple the Bluetooth Touchscreen remote hooked to my Mini, and an ATSC/QAM tuner to view HD TV on my HD TV through my HD Mac device.
It would also be great to see Mac provide some input switching like the Winders Media edition, so that I can use my Bluetooth mouse to control which device I use and don't have to bother with my TV's cumbersome source select menu.
Thu Mar 29 22:08:37 2007
I'm disappointed by the AppleTV. I have a Mac Mini, but it doesn't have component outputs, (or HDMI for that matter) and it would be difficult to hook up other devices to it.
I'd rather see from Apple the Bluetooth Touchscreen remote hooked to my Mini, and an ATSC/QAM tuner to view HD TV on my HD TV through my HD Mac device.
It would also be great to see Mac provide some input switching like the Winders Media edition, so that I can use my Bluetooth mouse to control which device I use and don't have to bother with my TV's cumbersome source select menu.
Mike
Thu Mar 29 22:14:18 2007
And the Bluetooth Touchscreen I'm talking about is the patented one they own according to rumors abounding on the internet: http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/07/apple-patents-bluetooth-remote-with-touch-screen/
I'm sure the AppleTV is great for an iTunes streamer, but I use my Mac Mini for so much more. Just see http://www.myspace.com/24. No need for PVR or DVR if all the shows are out there already.
Thu Mar 29 22:14:18 2007
And the Bluetooth Touchscreen I'm talking about is the patented one they own according to rumors abounding on the internet: http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/07/apple-patents-bluetooth-remote-with-touch-screen/
I'm sure the AppleTV is great for an iTunes streamer, but I use my Mac Mini for so much more. Just see http://www.myspace.com/24. No need for PVR or DVR if all the shows are out there already.
Andrew Mulheirn
Fri Mar 30 16:56:50 2007
Hi - thanks for the information - very useful.
To add to your list of working TVs, I have managed to get a picture (but no sound) on a Loewe Aconda 9381 ZW. This is a widescreen CRT TV with three external inputs.
To make this happen, you need to do the following:
1. Buy a component to SCART adaptor, such as this one:
<a href="http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=47318&doy=30m3">http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=47318&doy=30m3</a>
2. Ensure it is connected to EXT3 on the Aconda.
3. Configure the Loewe's EXT3 to expect a YUV signal with sync from Y.
The thing is, I'm not getting any audio, despite connecting the left and right audio connectors on the Apple TV to the 3.5mm input jack on the back of the television. I do get audio through my hi-fi, so the output on the Apple TV is working - it must be something on the Loewe that I don't yet understand.
Anyone with any clues? I'll post anything I find out.
Fri Mar 30 16:56:50 2007
Hi - thanks for the information - very useful.
To add to your list of working TVs, I have managed to get a picture (but no sound) on a Loewe Aconda 9381 ZW. This is a widescreen CRT TV with three external inputs.
To make this happen, you need to do the following:
1. Buy a component to SCART adaptor, such as this one:
<a href="http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=47318&doy=30m3">http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=47318&doy=30m3</a>
2. Ensure it is connected to EXT3 on the Aconda.
3. Configure the Loewe's EXT3 to expect a YUV signal with sync from Y.
The thing is, I'm not getting any audio, despite connecting the left and right audio connectors on the Apple TV to the 3.5mm input jack on the back of the television. I do get audio through my hi-fi, so the output on the Apple TV is working - it must be something on the Loewe that I don't yet understand.
Anyone with any clues? I'll post anything I find out.
robinf
Sun Apr 1 16:49:30 2007
I hooked the AppleTv up last week to my composite video TV using a PYRO AV Link box. This is a way too expensive way to convert the signal, but I had a couple of them so I tried it and it worked. Using 480i provided clear videos, clear movie trailers, photos, album covers and a clear interface. Some were stretched, but very good quality.
Then, a couple days into it, the videos all have digital looking squares all over them. the music and album covers are still very clean--not covered with little squares, but any video is messed up. The trailers are unwatchable due to the pixels all over the video.Even the screen saver has little squares and distortion acrossed or surrounding the photos. The odd thing is that it is only on some photos in the screen saver and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it.
I changed the cables toa new set of component cables
Sun Apr 1 16:49:30 2007
I hooked the AppleTv up last week to my composite video TV using a PYRO AV Link box. This is a way too expensive way to convert the signal, but I had a couple of them so I tried it and it worked. Using 480i provided clear videos, clear movie trailers, photos, album covers and a clear interface. Some were stretched, but very good quality.
Then, a couple days into it, the videos all have digital looking squares all over them. the music and album covers are still very clean--not covered with little squares, but any video is messed up. The trailers are unwatchable due to the pixels all over the video.Even the screen saver has little squares and distortion acrossed or surrounding the photos. The odd thing is that it is only on some photos in the screen saver and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it.
I changed the cables toa new set of component cables
robinf
Sun Apr 1 16:51:51 2007
I hooked the AppleTv up last week to my composite video TV using a PYRO AV Link box. This is a way too expensive way to convert the signal, but I had a couple of them so I tried it and it worked. Using 480i provided clear videos, clear movie trailers, photos, album covers and a clear interface. Some were stretched, but very good quality.
Then, a couple days into it, the videos all have digital looking squares all over them. the music and album covers are still very clean--not covered with little squares, but any video is messed up. The trailers are unwatchable due to the pixels all over the video.Even the screen saver has little squares and distortion acrossed or surrounding the photos. The odd thing is that it is only on some photos in the screen saver and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it.
I changed the cables to a new set of component cables-no help
Changed the Pyro box--no help
Reset the AppleTv--no help
Trying to figure out why it worked before and now it doesn't
My next move is to take it across the street to my buddy's hdtv to see if it works
rf
Sun Apr 1 16:51:51 2007
I hooked the AppleTv up last week to my composite video TV using a PYRO AV Link box. This is a way too expensive way to convert the signal, but I had a couple of them so I tried it and it worked. Using 480i provided clear videos, clear movie trailers, photos, album covers and a clear interface. Some were stretched, but very good quality.
Then, a couple days into it, the videos all have digital looking squares all over them. the music and album covers are still very clean--not covered with little squares, but any video is messed up. The trailers are unwatchable due to the pixels all over the video.Even the screen saver has little squares and distortion acrossed or surrounding the photos. The odd thing is that it is only on some photos in the screen saver and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it.
I changed the cables to a new set of component cables-no help
Changed the Pyro box--no help
Reset the AppleTv--no help
Trying to figure out why it worked before and now it doesn't
My next move is to take it across the street to my buddy's hdtv to see if it works
rf
Ron C.
Wed Apr 4 23:38:28 2007
W.r.t. cables, do NOT buy them at Best Buy, etc., and certainly NOT the Monster brand - all marketing, no meat. My favorite (as introduced to me by my colleague Scott) is monoprice.com. No, I don't work for them, just a happy customer.
Thanks for the good work!
Ron
Wed Apr 4 23:38:28 2007
W.r.t. cables, do NOT buy them at Best Buy, etc., and certainly NOT the Monster brand - all marketing, no meat. My favorite (as introduced to me by my colleague Scott) is monoprice.com. No, I don't work for them, just a happy customer.
Thanks for the good work!
Ron
Adam
Tue Apr 17 14:09:11 2007
I am not sure why you are saying that this is not true file streaming? If I take one of my 2GB movies and copy from one drive to another, it takes about 3 minutes to copy the large file. If I stream it to Apple TV (no previous sync), Apple TV begins displaying it in about 3 seconds.
Tue Apr 17 14:09:11 2007
I am not sure why you are saying that this is not true file streaming? If I take one of my 2GB movies and copy from one drive to another, it takes about 3 minutes to copy the large file. If I stream it to Apple TV (no previous sync), Apple TV begins displaying it in about 3 seconds.
Yvan256
Wed Apr 18 11:03:53 2007
"However, when I hold Menu and "+" for six seconds, triggering the "cycle through video modes" function, two additional modes become available: When 480p is checked, 853x480 becomes available, and when 720p HD is checked, 1280x720 becomes available."
I'm sorry but either this is just false or I can't enable that 853x480 mode... The "cycle through video modes" function does seem to work (i.e. holding [menu] and [+] does bring the video mode setup screen) but after that nothing happens (no hidden 853x480 mode).
Wed Apr 18 11:03:53 2007
"However, when I hold Menu and "+" for six seconds, triggering the "cycle through video modes" function, two additional modes become available: When 480p is checked, 853x480 becomes available, and when 720p HD is checked, 1280x720 becomes available."
I'm sorry but either this is just false or I can't enable that 853x480 mode... The "cycle through video modes" function does seem to work (i.e. holding [menu] and [+] does bring the video mode setup screen) but after that nothing happens (no hidden 853x480 mode).
amar
Sat Apr 21 17:13:23 2007
After 20 days of debating whether to buy or not an HDTV, I bought one yesterday, and to tell you the truth, apple tv is great with HDTV. it is fun to have it at home. if you need to buy HDTV, buy a TV with more than single hdmi connection. You will need at least two for the furture. isquint is a very good , but slow, free program. i used it to convert files to ipod. surprisingly, the picture quality is not that bad on apple tv. I was wondering how could you get files recorded in your DVR to be working on apple tv that is hooked to a different TV. I am using DVR for dishnetwork. Any idea how to do that? thank you
Sat Apr 21 17:13:23 2007
After 20 days of debating whether to buy or not an HDTV, I bought one yesterday, and to tell you the truth, apple tv is great with HDTV. it is fun to have it at home. if you need to buy HDTV, buy a TV with more than single hdmi connection. You will need at least two for the furture. isquint is a very good , but slow, free program. i used it to convert files to ipod. surprisingly, the picture quality is not that bad on apple tv. I was wondering how could you get files recorded in your DVR to be working on apple tv that is hooked to a different TV. I am using DVR for dishnetwork. Any idea how to do that? thank you
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