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	<title>Comments on: iPhone SDK Bug Filing</title>
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	<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/</link>
	<description>All Blown Up</description>
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		<title>By: Rolland Coolman</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-1002</link>
		<dc:creator>Rolland Coolman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-1002</guid>
		<description>We sell Brand New/Unlocked Mobile Phones and Other:

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Please contact us on Rolland.coolman@gmail.com OR rolland.coolman@sify.com  OR call this number +447045777691</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We sell Brand New/Unlocked Mobile Phones and Other:</p>
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Nokia 7900 Prism&#8230;..US$350.<br />
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Nokia E65&#8230;.US$250.<br />
Nokia 7380&#8230;..US$190<br />
Nokia N73&#8230;&#8230;US$210<br />
Nokia N75&#8230;..US$400<br />
Nokia 7370&#8230;..US$190<br />
Nokia 3250&#8230;..Us$200<br />
Nextel i930&#8230;US$160<br />
Nexteli870&#8230;.US$140<br />
Sidekick 2&#8230;.US$155<br />
Sidekice 3&#8230;US$250<br />
Nexteli860&#8230;.US$130<br />
Treo600&#8230;&#8230;.US$170<br />
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Nokia 7900 Prism&#8230;&#8230;US$310.<br />
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Imate Ultimate 8150&#8230;&#8230;US$320<br />
Imate-Ultimate 9502&#8230;&#8230;.US$300.<br />
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Imate-Ultimate 8502&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$250.<br />
Imate-Ultimate 9150&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..US$290.<br />
Imate-Ultimate 5150&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$450.<br />
Imate-Jama 201&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;US$230.<br />
Imate-Jama 101&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$290<br />
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HTC Dual&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$350<br />
HTC S730&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$390<br />
HTC P6500&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$700<br />
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HTC Touch&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$900<br />
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HTC S710&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$340<br />
HTC P3600i&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.US$450<br />
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<p>Please contact us on <a href="mailto:Rolland.coolman@gmail.com">Rolland.coolman@gmail.com</a> OR <a href="mailto:rolland.coolman@sify.com">rolland.coolman@sify.com</a>  OR call this number +447045777691</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aurélien</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-804</link>
		<dc:creator>Aurélien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-804</guid>
		<description>&quot;But I would like to see some specifics on how these freedoms would be used, so that we can discuss the real advantages they would deliver and weight them against the real security holes they would create.&quot;
Will try to provide some.


&lt;b&gt;Allow applications to be installed at the user’s discretion, not Apple’s --- &lt;/b&gt;
Why would we recreate the wheel ? Let&#039;s just look at what other operating systems do : an apt-like system would be perfect. You would have official sources list for downloading secured apps, and the possibility to add custom sources.
I can&#039;t understand why some seems to disagree with this request. If you want a secure iPhone/iTouch, then just don&#039;t install untrusted apps, but don&#039;t blame the others. On my N70, i needed some apps and i created them for a personnal use, I&#039;m puzzled not to be allowed to do so on my iTouch... it&#039;s mine, I paid for it, why can&#039;t I install what I wish on it ?
Why does Apple think they are more able than me to determine wether a program is dangerous or not ? Especially if i wrote the program myself.


&lt;b&gt;Allow applications to run in background on iPhone --- &lt;/b&gt;
This is absolute necessity!
Very often, you have to look for something while you&#039;re doing something else :
.Writing an sms and want to switch to contact list to remember the birthday of a friend.
.Listening music while watching pictures.
.Looking for a map on internet while writing a message to explain to a friend how to go somewhere.
.Resume the text you were reading while an sms/alarm emerged.
...

&lt;b&gt;A MediaPicker API for accessing the iPod music files is needed --- &lt;/b&gt;Necessary too !
This would transfer the handling of media formats from the OS world to user world. What if I want to listen .xyz files, the new &quot;a la mode&quot; music file format ? What if Apple just can&#039;t pay engineers to constantly update their viewers/players to be able to handle latests formats ?


Each request I illustrated here is not in contradiction with the &quot;non-Mac&quot; mantra. They are just necessary...
The other requests are more tendencious: Allowing developpers to access ports might lead to completely unstopable apps aiming at replacing Apple softwares.
Allowing a root access or a filesystem access would just break the abstraction layer provided by the SDK -&gt; Mac OS Mobile is a monolithic kernel (euphemism), user-land softwares are highly abstracted. But adding a shared file-storage location would just be perfect.

Excuse me for my poor english :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I would like to see some specifics on how these freedoms would be used, so that we can discuss the real advantages they would deliver and weight them against the real security holes they would create.&#8221;<br />
Will try to provide some.</p>
<p><b>Allow applications to be installed at the user’s discretion, not Apple’s &#8212; </b><br />
Why would we recreate the wheel ? Let&#8217;s just look at what other operating systems do : an apt-like system would be perfect. You would have official sources list for downloading secured apps, and the possibility to add custom sources.<br />
I can&#8217;t understand why some seems to disagree with this request. If you want a secure iPhone/iTouch, then just don&#8217;t install untrusted apps, but don&#8217;t blame the others. On my N70, i needed some apps and i created them for a personnal use, I&#8217;m puzzled not to be allowed to do so on my iTouch&#8230; it&#8217;s mine, I paid for it, why can&#8217;t I install what I wish on it ?<br />
Why does Apple think they are more able than me to determine wether a program is dangerous or not ? Especially if i wrote the program myself.</p>
<p><b>Allow applications to run in background on iPhone &#8212; </b><br />
This is absolute necessity!<br />
Very often, you have to look for something while you&#8217;re doing something else :<br />
.Writing an sms and want to switch to contact list to remember the birthday of a friend.<br />
.Listening music while watching pictures.<br />
.Looking for a map on internet while writing a message to explain to a friend how to go somewhere.<br />
.Resume the text you were reading while an sms/alarm emerged.<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p><b>A MediaPicker API for accessing the iPod music files is needed &#8212; </b>Necessary too !<br />
This would transfer the handling of media formats from the OS world to user world. What if I want to listen .xyz files, the new &#8220;a la mode&#8221; music file format ? What if Apple just can&#8217;t pay engineers to constantly update their viewers/players to be able to handle latests formats ?</p>
<p>Each request I illustrated here is not in contradiction with the &#8220;non-Mac&#8221; mantra. They are just necessary&#8230;<br />
The other requests are more tendencious: Allowing developpers to access ports might lead to completely unstopable apps aiming at replacing Apple softwares.<br />
Allowing a root access or a filesystem access would just break the abstraction layer provided by the SDK -&gt; Mac OS Mobile is a monolithic kernel (euphemism), user-land softwares are highly abstracted. But adding a shared file-storage location would just be perfect.</p>
<p>Excuse me for my poor english :-)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tmk</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>tmk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-406</guid>
		<description>http://furbo.org/2008/03/16/brain-surgeons/

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Some have stated that Apple is limiting innovation. My opinion is that they are helping us from collectively shooting ourselves in the feet.

It takes several months of actual iPhone development before you eventually realize that the iPhone requires a completely different mindset. Until that happens, you’ll make assumptions based on desktop experience, and that in turn will lead to a lot of bad designs.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

PS: Mike, thanks for the pointer to Wikipedia iPhone specs: nothing authoritative there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://furbo.org/2008/03/16/brain-surgeons/" rel="nofollow">http://furbo.org/2008/03/16/brain-surgeons/</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
Some have stated that Apple is limiting innovation. My opinion is that they are helping us from collectively shooting ourselves in the feet.</p>
<p>It takes several months of actual iPhone development before you eventually realize that the iPhone requires a completely different mindset. Until that happens, you’ll make assumptions based on desktop experience, and that in turn will lead to a lot of bad designs.
</p></blockquote>
<p>PS: Mike, thanks for the pointer to Wikipedia iPhone specs: nothing authoritative there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mac Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 04:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-380</guid>
		<description>Very interesting discussion going on here, we are talking about this article over at iPhoneDevForums. 
http://iphonedevforums.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting discussion going on here, we are talking about this article over at iPhoneDevForums.<br />
<a href="http://iphonedevforums.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0" rel="nofollow">http://iphonedevforums.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Devon</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator>Devon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-370</guid>
		<description>Michael Tomlin, etc.,

Apple is always asking us to file feedback through the bug report website.  This IS NOT SPAM.  How do you think we got the expanding menus back in the Dock with 10.5.2?  Through constant user feedback.  At WWDC, Apple is always telling us to file bug reports for anything we think should change and they will consider the change and do what they feel with it.  If enough people are filing bugs/change requests, then Apple will listen.  

There&#039;s already 100,000+ downloads of the SDK in only a few days and if 10-20% of those users file similar requests then Apple will probably listen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Tomlin, etc.,</p>
<p>Apple is always asking us to file feedback through the bug report website.  This IS NOT SPAM.  How do you think we got the expanding menus back in the Dock with 10.5.2?  Through constant user feedback.  At WWDC, Apple is always telling us to file bug reports for anything we think should change and they will consider the change and do what they feel with it.  If enough people are filing bugs/change requests, then Apple will listen.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s already 100,000+ downloads of the SDK in only a few days and if 10-20% of those users file similar requests then Apple will probably listen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dogzilla</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Dogzilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-368</guid>
		<description>@Bill Kearney

&quot;you’re all just pathetic fanboi’s for pretending otherwise.&quot;

Calling someone a fanboi is so tired. It stopped being funny or clever about 5 years ago. It&#039;s like saying &quot;Why don&#039;t you ride your Razor over and watch this crazy new show called &#039;Survivor&#039;? We can complain about all the dot-commers!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill Kearney</p>
<p>&#8220;you’re all just pathetic fanboi’s for pretending otherwise.&#8221;</p>
<p>Calling someone a fanboi is so tired. It stopped being funny or clever about 5 years ago. It&#8217;s like saying &#8220;Why don&#8217;t you ride your Razor over and watch this crazy new show called &#8216;Survivor&#8217;? We can complain about all the dot-commers!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jarett</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-366</guid>
		<description>Guys, I completely agree with you, but I suggest you expand on the reasons for all the things you ask for and that you anticipate Apple&#039;s answers to these requests and why they might not be right in their restrictiveness.

Great article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, I completely agree with you, but I suggest you expand on the reasons for all the things you ask for and that you anticipate Apple&#8217;s answers to these requests and why they might not be right in their restrictiveness.</p>
<p>Great article.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Hernandez</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hernandez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-365</guid>
		<description>Excellent conversation!  But some perspective...

Apple invented the Mac, the iPod/iTunes and the iPhone which are hit products.  Like any other company, they&#039;ve produced some misses, too.

Just like you would feel if you invented something amazing and wanted the maximum revenue from it, we need to remember that this is Apple&#039;s product, they spent the money inventing, developing and marketing it, and they can do whatever they please to present it in whatever way they see fit.

Apple is unique in its own way.  By controlling both the hardware and the software, the Mac, iPod, and the iPhone are superior experiences, less prone to the degenerative effects of the free-for-all that other more open systems experience, e.g. PC, Treo, Windows Mobile, etc

The Mac is over a quarter-century old and it still shines.  The iPhone is not even a year old, and the SDK is now a week old.

Be patient.  This is Apple&#039;s product, not ours.  They are letting us in on a piece of the action and/or a piece of the glory.  Take it easy.   If the genie gets out of the bottle you&#039;ll never get it back in.  Better safe than sorry.

It&#039;s amazing how much hubris some people have.  This is Apple&#039;s product, not ours. Did I mention this is Apple&#039;s product? 

Remember the early days of the Mac or the iPod?  They seem so primitive compared to now, but things took time.  Quality products that [continue to] stand out from the rest take patience and consideration.  First we had only web apps, then we had a restrictive beta SDK, and then we had...  And in the end, there was a great product with long legs that, still, no one else could touch.

Thanks for listening.
Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent conversation!  But some perspective&#8230;</p>
<p>Apple invented the Mac, the iPod/iTunes and the iPhone which are hit products.  Like any other company, they&#8217;ve produced some misses, too.</p>
<p>Just like you would feel if you invented something amazing and wanted the maximum revenue from it, we need to remember that this is Apple&#8217;s product, they spent the money inventing, developing and marketing it, and they can do whatever they please to present it in whatever way they see fit.</p>
<p>Apple is unique in its own way.  By controlling both the hardware and the software, the Mac, iPod, and the iPhone are superior experiences, less prone to the degenerative effects of the free-for-all that other more open systems experience, e.g. PC, Treo, Windows Mobile, etc</p>
<p>The Mac is over a quarter-century old and it still shines.  The iPhone is not even a year old, and the SDK is now a week old.</p>
<p>Be patient.  This is Apple&#8217;s product, not ours.  They are letting us in on a piece of the action and/or a piece of the glory.  Take it easy.   If the genie gets out of the bottle you&#8217;ll never get it back in.  Better safe than sorry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amazing how much hubris some people have.  This is Apple&#8217;s product, not ours. Did I mention this is Apple&#8217;s product? </p>
<p>Remember the early days of the Mac or the iPod?  They seem so primitive compared to now, but things took time.  Quality products that [continue to] stand out from the rest take patience and consideration.  First we had only web apps, then we had a restrictive beta SDK, and then we had&#8230;  And in the end, there was a great product with long legs that, still, no one else could touch.</p>
<p>Thanks for listening.<br />
Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-364</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-364</guid>
		<description>Your view of how bugreport.apple.com is to be used is flat out wrong.

Let me just copy part of the topic in the #iphonedev IRC channel (which was set by a DTS engineer from Apple)

&lt;blockquote&gt;FILE A BUG! YES, FOR EVERYTHING! (https://bugreport.apple.com)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Apple DOES want you to use the bugreporter to respond with feedback. The bugreporter is the &lt;b&gt;ONE&lt;/b&gt; and &lt;b&gt;ONLY&lt;/b&gt; way to do this officially. When a developer files a report through the website, it goes into Apple&#039;s internal Radar bug tracking system to be dealt with. Feature requests, enhancements, and yes bugs all go there. Radar is institutional memory for Apple and a way for managers and engineers to figure out what to work. If a rash of developers file reports related to the same thing, that gets the attention of management and leads to it being addressed. 

So what&#039;s in it for RA is for the ability to voice concerns they have with the development environment. Do I agree with all their issues, no. Do I respect their right to do so, yes. And I encourage every other developer who has an issue of any kind to do &lt;b&gt;EXACTLY&lt;/b&gt; what RA is doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your view of how bugreport.apple.com is to be used is flat out wrong.</p>
<p>Let me just copy part of the topic in the #iphonedev IRC channel (which was set by a DTS engineer from Apple)</p>
<blockquote><p>FILE A BUG! YES, FOR EVERYTHING! (<a href="https://bugreport.apple.com" rel="nofollow">https://bugreport.apple.com</a>)</p></blockquote>
<p>Apple DOES want you to use the bugreporter to respond with feedback. The bugreporter is the <b>ONE</b> and <b>ONLY</b> way to do this officially. When a developer files a report through the website, it goes into Apple&#8217;s internal Radar bug tracking system to be dealt with. Feature requests, enhancements, and yes bugs all go there. Radar is institutional memory for Apple and a way for managers and engineers to figure out what to work. If a rash of developers file reports related to the same thing, that gets the attention of management and leads to it being addressed. </p>
<p>So what&#8217;s in it for RA is for the ability to voice concerns they have with the development environment. Do I agree with all their issues, no. Do I respect their right to do so, yes. And I encourage every other developer who has an issue of any kind to do <b>EXACTLY</b> what RA is doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Walt French</title>
		<link>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/comment-page-3/#comment-363</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt French</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2008/03/11/iphone-sdk-bug-filing/#comment-363</guid>
		<description>I also believe that using an engineer&#039;s bug-reporting mechanism for business feature requests is an abuse of the developer interface.

But let me express it in more of a political context: if YOU were Apple, would you be &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; interested in reversing yourself by granting exceptions, escalated privileges and whatnot, to a firm that shows itself aggressive in misusing the general privileges?

There&#039;s a perfectly obvious justification -- sometimes, two or more -- behind EVERY one of the Apple restrictions, generally along the &quot;security,&quot; &quot;performance,&quot; &quot;SDK immaturity&quot; and &quot;user experience&quot; lines that other comments spell out above. 

If I were looking for, say, a mechanism to access my PC across the dock, I&#039;d expect to tell Apple (1) why this represents a bigger opportunity than a problem for them, and (2) a mechanism that would allow them to control the problems at a reasonable cost. Instead, this post deprecates Apple&#039;s business sense; NOBODY would run this stuff to somebody HALF as mercurial as Jobs is often said to be.

It&#039;s just foolish and naïve to expect Apple to turn the iPhone into the world&#039;s second biggest malware magnet. Likewise, to expect that they&#039;ll actively collaborate in screwing their business partner networks. And that perfection comes instantly, especially given the difficulties that EVEN customers of Rogue Amoeba have had in adapting -- &lt;i&gt;e.g.&lt;/i&gt;, Airfoil -- to the much more stable &lt;b&gt;Mac&lt;/b&gt; OSX environment.

So what&#039;s really in it for R.A. to carry on this crusade this way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also believe that using an engineer&#8217;s bug-reporting mechanism for business feature requests is an abuse of the developer interface.</p>
<p>But let me express it in more of a political context: if YOU were Apple, would you be <b><i>more</i></b> interested in reversing yourself by granting exceptions, escalated privileges and whatnot, to a firm that shows itself aggressive in misusing the general privileges?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a perfectly obvious justification &#8212; sometimes, two or more &#8212; behind EVERY one of the Apple restrictions, generally along the &#8220;security,&#8221; &#8220;performance,&#8221; &#8220;SDK immaturity&#8221; and &#8220;user experience&#8221; lines that other comments spell out above. </p>
<p>If I were looking for, say, a mechanism to access my PC across the dock, I&#8217;d expect to tell Apple (1) why this represents a bigger opportunity than a problem for them, and (2) a mechanism that would allow them to control the problems at a reasonable cost. Instead, this post deprecates Apple&#8217;s business sense; NOBODY would run this stuff to somebody HALF as mercurial as Jobs is often said to be.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just foolish and naïve to expect Apple to turn the iPhone into the world&#8217;s second biggest malware magnet. Likewise, to expect that they&#8217;ll actively collaborate in screwing their business partner networks. And that perfection comes instantly, especially given the difficulties that EVEN customers of Rogue Amoeba have had in adapting &#8212; <i>e.g.</i>, Airfoil &#8212; to the much more stable <b>Mac</b> OSX environment.</p>
<p>So what&#8217;s really in it for R.A. to carry on this crusade this way?</p>
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